The Walking Dead Season 4

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, May 6, 2013.

  1. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    More accurately they've used three sets of twins for Judith. One set for each age she's been so far over the course of the series. (The infant when she was first born, the slightly older baby for later in the season and now for toddler Judith.)
     
  2. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ahh, thanks for the clarification,that seems like MORE of hassle, especially to keep re-casting for her.
     
  3. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    I think Terminus must be the place they heard the radio signal from when they drove into that horde. I don't think that's going to be a place they actually want to be in.

    The baby scene really had me concerned. It's weird when you can just watch zombies decapitated in gruesome ways and be fine with it, but then Judith being suffocated by another child just makes you squirm. Maybe it's because she had just been revealed to be alive and ok, and it's like now you're going to kill her? I really thought Lizzie was going to kill Judith because Lizzie is damn crazy.

    And now that Carol is back, I'm guessing she is going to further influence Lizzie into doing something terrible. It's going to happen. They're not just setting all this psycho stuff up so that she won't be doing something terrible. I thought Judith was going to be it. Maybe it still could be. Carol is going to be the perfect person to bring that insanity fully out.
     
  4. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    I think it would great if TV-Judith survives, while experienced, tough, or at least weapons-familiar adults (ex. Shane, Merle, Andrea, et al) could nout, no matter the circumstance. It would give the show something it desperately needs: a small sense of hope.
     
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    No, Carol is rational: she's not sadistic, but a realist. I can see TV-Carol having to step in when Lizzie finally goes too far (you can imagine what I mean by that), and kill the girl--moments before, she will explain that her lessons about survival did not mean enjoying murder and blood (Governor territory).
     
  6. Dorian Thompson

    Dorian Thompson Admiral Admiral

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    Carol is back. :) I like that.

    Yep, Lizzie's a psycho. It's wholly realistic that certain people would manifest symptoms like Lizzie's in response to such a bloody apocalypse claiming the lives of those they love in such a gruesome way and to the idea that it's potentially never ending. I like it. I like that it's in the form of a little girl. I like that Carol deftly lied to Tyrese. Why shouldn't she lie? She doesn't think they'll ever seen anyone at the prison again anyway.

    Of course, I suspect they'll all meet up eventually and then the shit will really hit the fan. :D I can't imagine Daryl not being happy to see her....and then immediately asking Carol point blank about the deaths she supposedly caused. Was it Lizzie? I can buy that it was.

    Also....is Beth Greene not the most inconsequential character of the lot? It's the actress, I think. She's got nothing going on. Emily Kinney really suffers in comparison to Lauren Cohan and her castmates.
     
  7. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, if the story plays out like I think it will, things with little Lizzy Borden are going to come to a head real soon.
     
  8. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    She's definitely going to flip and kill someone. My thoughts on who:
    - Her sister, Mika. This seems the most likely to me because she's pretty disposable as a character anyway and it would be really cruel. Lizzie also gets quite upset at her sister.
    - Judith. Moving from animals to something not quite as cognizant, like a baby, might be the logical progression. It's already been hinted at, but who knows if she'll follow through. This would open the door for Carl having to kill her.
    - Carol. It would just be ironic if the one who taught Lizzie to defend herself is the one who ends up being murdered by her. Although an adult might be too much of a stretch at this point for murder, unless she really did kill Karen (I don't think she did for a number of reasons). Also, the woman she shot not withstanding since that was more self defense than murder in cold blood. The death of Carol might also have the most impact too since the others I mentioned aren't characters we're invested in. Although her psycho act might be more of a catalyst for Rick/Carl to go nutso on her. I just don't see why they would build this up all season if she isn't going to do something impactful.

    I also think that whoever she kills, it's not going to be a head-piercing. She's going to want them back as a zombie.
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Probably the murder that will take place.


    This is a possibility only in the event Lizzie sees Carol as not being willing to "get bloody" to survive (a replay of one of Shane's motives for the attempted murder of Rick). Still, bringing Carol back, only to have "her girl" killer is entirely too predictable (for me, anyway), and would make the producers look like they were trying to go for yet another shock death of a major character.

    Enough of that.


    That was too telegraphed in Lizzie's prison fence scenes.

    Moreover, we have already witnessed humans not accepting walkers as the dead (the Greene family's barn, the Governor with his rotten daughter), so we do not to see Lizzie "zombieize" someone, as it has been explored across two seasons.

    There's nothing creepy or psychotic about Lizzie being clueless or naive (as indicated by Carl in the fence scene with Lizzie).
     
  10. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    There sorta is about her intently smoothering a baby !
     
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    That line about "clueless and naive" was a reference to her idea of walkers at the fence. Judith is alive--that's the drama or creepy part of her journey. But her fence fantasy of zombies being humans simply coming back / giving them names is just plain stupid. Even her younger sister keyed in on that. Lizzie's most "WTF?" moment was her circling her shoe in spilled blood.

    She's such a "devil child" plot device, that in a sense, I ca see why some fans want her story line over as soon as possible.
     
  12. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well yeah, until she randomly killed some baby rabbits out of boredom this week.
     
  13. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I can see that happening as a result of her learning that Carol killed the other two. "Well, Carol did it. Mika was holding us back as much as the sick people."
     
  14. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    She wasn't really treating the walkers at the fence as humans, or the walker on the catwalk in the Hershel episode, she's treating the more like pets.
     
  15. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Yep. I know we've discussed Lizzie killing Karen and the other guy before, and I think it's still a strong possibility, with Carol trying to cover it up in her motherly way. Lizzie could also kill her sister, paralleling a similar comic plotline, albeit with less innocence.

    Mark
     
  16. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  17. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is that what she was doing? I couldn't tell.

    I can see either of these. I don't know if it's the most likely or most logical, but the progression I'd want to see is:
    1) Carol teaches the kids weapons and how to be pragmatic in the new world.

    2) Lizzy takes the lesson to an extreme by killing Karen, etc. Carol understands due to the pragmatism she's been preaching, helps cover it up and takes the fall for it. However, Lizzy didn't do it out of sheer pragmatism and Carol doesn't realize it.

    3) Lizzy continues down a road of playing with both life and death ... befriending the undead, vivisecting the living, etc. She's temporarily shocked back to reality when her walker buddy tries to eat her during the prison outbreak, but the lesson doesn't stick.

    I wouldn't say she's gone through a psychotic break at this point, but her perceptions are more than a bit blurred. And who can blame her? In a world where her mother-figure tells her that murder can be excused and that those you've murdered don't always stay that way....

    4) Lizzy progresses to a point where she gets more pleasure out of killing the living than anything else and doesn't feel like she has to justify it with pragmatism. And it's revealed for all to see. She's just about at that point now. I don't think she'll kill Judith anymore, but they made a point of showing the risk because pragmatism pushed her to that point.

    She might very well kill Mika. I'd say she might kill Carol, but not before Carol comes to the realization that this is the result of her lessons. It would be interesting to see a showdown between the two with Carol screaming, "This is not what I taught you!" What I can't guess is whether that would even sink in to Lizzy at this point.

    The one thing story-wise that might preserve Carol a little longer is a need for her to reconcile with Rick.
    Kind of like Hershel getting to see Rick's new outlook before he died.
    Of course, they might kill her off 30 seconds afterward.
    Like Hershel.
    But still.

    :rofl::guffaw::lol: :rofl::guffaw:
     
  18. wissaboo

    wissaboo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Carol was covering up for Lizzie killing Karen she wouldn't have been so matter of fact about it. The shocking thing about Carol killing was that she was so blase about it. She didn't seem to even entertain the thought that it wasn't the right thing to do. If she was covering up for someone else she would have a) been aware that it was wrong in the first place and b) been apologetic about it.
     
  19. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That may be the case, but her blasé attitude makes more sense if she wasn't the one who did it.

    We already know she was both serving as a mother figure and also trying to convey the pragmatic attitude. She wouldn't be apologetic for it if she thought Lizzy was justified. And she'd see taking the fall for Lizzy as the motherly thing to do, not the wrong thing, so she wouldn't apologize for that either.

    Who knows what the group would do if they found out a little girl was killing people? This way (in her mind) it gave Lizzy a chance to grow up and become a survivor.

    That all may be wrong, but it's what I'd like to see ... and it seems to work. I think.
     
  20. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Here's the thing, though. Covering for Lizzie makes no sense. Say it was her and Carol revealed that? So what? What's the group going to do? Kill a 10-year-old girl? Banish her? No, they'd have a problem on their hands for sure but they'd find a fairly civilized way to deal with it. CAROL taking responsibility for it and confessing, however, opens her up. Because her they CAN banish and punish. So Carol covering for Lizzie just doesn't make any sense.