The Walking Dead Season 4

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, May 6, 2013.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    It's gotta be more than 3 weeks since Rick woke up. Lori's only had 1 kid before. In the middle of the Zombie Apocalypse, it's extremely unlikely that she would fear a pregnancy less than 3 weeks after Insemination, and even less likely she tested positively, more likely 6 weeks, which tracks against the 8 months between seasons better (Human Gestation is typically closer to 10 months, than 9)
     
  2. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    If it's six weeks that means they were looking for Sophia a LOT longer than they should have and Shane was pretty right in getting pissed about it. More than a few days passing in all of Season 1 is impossible we literally see every sunrise and sunset and there's a connection between every day. And I just cannot see them spending more than a week looking for Sophia, though we do have Carl's recovery time to consider.

    Okay, sure, maybe it was closer to 9 or 10 months to pass for the gestation period (again, it was stated she was past due in the beginning of S3) but there couldn't be more than a few weeks between S1 and the mid-season break in S2 (when Sophia is found.) It's "possible" (though unlikely given the stressful living situations, being malnourished, and being around other women) Lori's very regular with her periods and when she was more than a day late she got worried. TV hand-waving will accept that a pregnancy test will work inside of a couple of weeks.
     
  3. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really enjoying so many perspectives in this thread. Learning a lot!

    Ok, a few observations:

    Tyreese has not shown himself to be given to rage up to now, I have a hard time believing he'd swing at Daryl or Rick - or that Rick, a trained cop, would go into "ass-kicking mode" clearly after a fight is over. He would be conditioned for minimal force, not rage. So for me, that fight, while dramatic, seemed a bit contrived. Then again, two men talking over details is not exciting television, so it's forgiveable.


    Rick inferred that Carol was guilty, and by asking Carol if she'd "do anything to save the group" she said yes, plain as day. They both knew the answer - I was actually surprised she admitted that. Now, she tries to walk off but Rick has to stop her to ask her directly "Did you do it?" (I paraphrase). This is where his law enforcement conditioning seems to resurface - trying to pin people down with their words. Enforcing some consensus of legality - but his mandate as representative of the law is purely metaphorical at this point. Moral authority vs survival, interesting theme.

    So I find his behavior incongruent - as a matter of fact if he were smart he might have abandoned the case, and relieved himself of having to mete out "justice" in the inevitable ethical dilemma/quagmire/shouting/shooting match. Or maybe he's clinging to law enforcement - which may be a strength or a liability in the new condition.

    "Was it murder or mercy killing?" Karen and David would have been dead by the time of their conversation anyway - and Carol might have prevented the crisis they now face. Now that Rick knows, he's insinuating himself right in the center of a crapstorm a smarter man might have neutralized with better framing.

    On the other hand, all Carol had to do was wait out their illness and be there to deliver a death blow after they had turned. So yeah, more easily avoided drama in reality, but of course for the TV show, let's shoot first and attract more zombies and injure ourselves with our gratuitous fighting later. Let the driver watch the !@#$% radio, while the rest of us daydream on our way to grandma's house.

    For me - give me more Michonne hunting the Gov, more Tyreese hulking out on the zombies - not in the bloody wings, in center stage - than this maternal crap. I know, the audience is bigger than my demographic. But I'm patient and won't judge until I see the whole arc. Oh, Michonne's katana FX are superb, love it!




    Marylin Manson communicates a lot like Sarah Palin - making many intuitive leaps and inferences. This style of inferential communication is shared by about half the population, and does obstruct understanding among the other half of more direct communicators. Think Dennis Miller vs Jay Leno. Circular vs linear.

    No references, no inferences, no understanding. He's actually communicating a lot with fewer words, but seems disjointed and incoherent if you hold it up to direct connect-the-dots communicating. It's easy to mock - especially in his larger-than-life persona - but mockery distracts attention away from not getting the references.

    It's not about ignorance or irrationality - it's simply miscommunication. Now, labeling people, that's something else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  4. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    What's wrong with a long time skip? The story would just be skipping over any "boring" (read that as quiet and/or safe) periods to the next series of mishaps and misadventures.

    And Carl (and his actor Chandler) are hitting puberty, so naturally the kid will sprout up quick. Nothing unnatural about that, and it's not hard to explain.
     
  5. Conundrum

    Conundrum Commodore Commodore

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    It's probably a sign people are juuuust starting to get bored with the "just surviving" storyline and want the story to get a little bigger.
     
  6. Conundrum

    Conundrum Commodore Commodore

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    Naval ships need a near constant supply of spare parts to keep them running, not to mention the upkeep needed to keep the reactors cooking and distilling plants making water.

    Your only chance to make the carrier scenario viable for more than say a year (if you're very lucky) would be to actually have several carriers anchored nearby to canabalize parts off of as you need them. Even then it's not an indefinite solution.
     
  7. Dorian Thompson

    Dorian Thompson Admiral Admiral

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    Carol doing what she did wasn't out of the blue. Post traumatic stress can manifest and cause a person to act out years after the original trauma (in this case, Sophia's death) is inflicted. Sophia died alone and scared in the woods. She became a walker. Carol didn't teach her to protect herself because Carol couldn't protect herself. Guilt is a horrific emotion. It festers like a wound that's never been cleaned. You can suppress it, but it's always there acting on your subconscious. Sophia died alone because I didn't prepare her. To lose a child is the most horrible thing of all, people say.

    Slowly but surely, a coldness and deliberateness creeps in to her psyche. Now, at long last she has two new surrogate daughters she's vowed to protect and this flu that killed Patrick (whom Carol spoke with a few hours before his sudden death) in less than a day. That's what they were talking about in front of Carol. At that point, Carol didn't have any other information that the disease's symptoms could be controlled with antibiotics. Poor unfortunate Karen presented herself at that moment running into Carol and Hershel in the hallway. Carol's mind tells her she must act.....now. Protect her new girls. Protect the people.

    In her mind, she could rationalize it as a mercy killing, but she took it upon herself to act alone on two people who may or may not have been saved. The shit will hit the fan if Rick tells. Will he tell? Is he too much of a cop by nature? Me....I'd probably keep quiet if I knew Carol as well as Rick does. However, the guilt would eat me alive if I had to look Tyrese in the face every day. Rick's got a streak of boy scout in him still. Yowza. :eek:

    I also wonder at Daryl's reaction, or if Rick will tell him at all? What would the council do? Execute her? Banish her from the prison? Damn.
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    I really get the impression more than 4 days passed in season one. Rick could have easily been (and most likely was) holed up with Morgan for more than a day or two healing.

    But yeah, 2 years haven't passed yet.
     
  9. Immolatus

    Immolatus Captain Captain

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    in wwz, both the book and the movie their was a working government. so their might be a gov out there just bearly holding on.
     
  10. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Wow, I can't believe it was Carol who killed them. I don't know how she will survive this. Rick can't ignore it. Tyreese sure won't, and will feel especially betrayed after his talk with her. Will the council put her on trial?

    I don't, however, like what they did with Tyreese. Up till now, he was always presented as a civilized, reasonable man; now he's been reduced to the angry Black man cliche.

    Herschel rocks, though. I loved his speech. :bolian:
     
  11. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Just pointing out that you decided to nitpick, and then after all the math and mental gymnastics, you arrived pretty close to the number you started by nitpicking. ;)

    Didn't need to do as much chasing, though, Judith gives you all the numbers you need. Lori and Shane hooked up at the very beginning of the series, and I don't think that happened again. 9 months for pregnancy, and then how old is Judith now? Call it 6 months or so? There's your entire timeline.
     
  12. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of the things I like about this show is the debates it presents us.

    Rick leaving Backpack guy behind.
    To kill or not to kill Randal.
    Did Carl pull the trigger too quick on Shotgun boy or not?
    And now Carol's action.

    The writers present these actions very well to split the audience pretty much in half a give us great watercooler debates.

    That said I can't believe Carl didn't ignore Herschel and put down the two walkers in the woods after his inaction got Dale killed, granted the one at the base of the tree wasn't much of a threat but still, those are two easy kills in a world full of walkers, take them.

    Also this debate about time passage, didn't the opening episode tell us that six months have past since the end of season 3 or am I mistaken? I'm thinking this has been going on for almost 2 years.

    @Trekker4747 Tyreese and Michonne hook up in the Comics.


    Did anyone else get the feeling that this may be the end for Herschel? The whole sacrifice myself for the greater good speech and the scene between Beth and Maggie makes me feel like he is going to die from the new virus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  13. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep. Unless they reveal that Lori was cheating with Shane before rick was shot that's the only timeline that makes sense.
     
  14. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just found This, be warned it has Episode synopsis up to episode 9 it also talks a little about time passage, it's been 6-7 months since season 3's end.
     
  15. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He got angry. For a very good reason. The woman he was in love with was killed and her body was desecrated and no one seemed to give much of a shit. He is sick and tired of this life as it is and his one solace from the misery of all that death that surrounds him is gone. There wasn't any racist cliche involved, it was the natural response for the character given the situation.

    Your mind jumping immediately to that stereotype is your own damn problem.
     
  16. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In the comic they get into a knock down drag out that makes what happened in the show seem tame.
    Of course the comic is 5 X's more brutal than than the T.V. show.
     
  17. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually no, as I recall there wasn't a "working" government in WWZ, there was a government in exile that took a while to get it's shit together and come back from hiding in it's safe zones.

    Still, as someone else pointed out, in The Walking Dead, the airwaves have gone totally silent (until this last episode, that is.) In WWZ I'm pretty sure the remnants of the US Government kept transmitting information and advice all the way through. There's a reason why in one story a wind-up radio is a *very* sought after item.

    It's probably worth remembering that in WWZ there was a much longer run-up to the collapse, so certain parties had time to take certain minimum precautions. Hell, things held together long enough for a bunch of moronic celebrities to try and turn surviving in a fortified villa into a reality TV show.

    In TWD I think things happened a *lot* faster. Mostly because it seems the virus that re-animates the dead (regardless of the CoD) had already infected the planet before anyone knew what was happening. IIRC, in WWZ the infection could only be spread by bites, so the progress was slower. As in it was months between patient zero and the collapse.
    I get the impression that Tyreese is the kind who knows he has a temper and hates it so he makes an extra effort to be calm and reasonable. Seeing one's would-be girlfriend's still warm, burnt-out husk seems like something that'd break down anyone's self control.

    Rick's actually in a similar place which is why he had such a violent reaction.
     
  18. Vendikarr

    Vendikarr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After reading that link, this is my guess about episode 9.

     
  19. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not saying that story won't happen but I'm kinda thinking episode 8 will be the return of the Governor and at the end with the tank driving up to the prison for the mid season finale and Episode 9 will be the conclusion and sadly they way it plays out in the comic.
     
  20. Dorian Thompson

    Dorian Thompson Admiral Admiral

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    Why does Tyrese having a normal reaction to grief and the idea that the woman he loved was murdered make him an "angry black man cliché?" That would make me mad as hell and want to punch someone, too. No one's calling Rick's reaction a cliché. Tyrone's a unique individual. He reacts in his own way. He's no more an "angry man" than Rick is an "angry man."