The Walking Dead Season 3

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Gotham Central, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    But... that is exactly what this show is. The drama of trying to survive in an otherwise hopeless world. There are no large, safe, scientific cultures left (that we know of), and certainly none that have the training or resources to work on finding a cure. It's 100% survival for the sake of surviving. The last person qualified to tell us whether or not there is a cure died in the first season, and the only news he had worth reporting is that everyone is a zombie already anyway; they just didn't know it yet.

    If anything, the end game of this show is the witnessing of the end of the human race. Changing that in any way would turn it into something completely different.

    And that's all its been since day one. It was never a story with any other ending in sight. Just the adventure of this one group of people enduring through a no-win situation.

    Which, again, is like most shows out there to one degree or another. Star Trek: TNG never had an ending. There was a finale, sure, but the characters and the world continued on after that finale. Modern Family certainly has no end-game in sight. Hell, even shows like Homeland don't. Once they thwart the current attack on the US, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once they capture/execute Abu Nazir, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once they reveal Brody to the world, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once Carrie, Brody, Saul, David, Mike, and/or all their respective families are executed, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. etc. Or is there some definitive end to these shows that I'm just unaware of?
     
  2. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not necessarily. The show can be about something other than the last humans killing each other off, and still not be about a cure. There's any number of story possibilities that don't end with Rick's group getting turned out of their latest home and going on the road again. Or getting devoured to the last man.

    They keep talking about how Carl is the hope for the future, and Baby Ass-Kicker, and so on, but there's no way those characters will survive to grow up at this rate.

    You refer to the characters "surviving" or "enduring", so let's see a situation where they might actually be able to survive. If they never had a chance, you can't say the show is about survival.

    So, will the last episode see everyone dying, Rick turning his gun on himself, and the screen fading to black while the walkers close in? If so, why watch?
     
  3. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    The endgame of Walking Dead is punctuated equilibrium. A new Human species will evolve in response to the Zombie Apocalypse-- a species that eats Zombies. Yum.

    Yeah, the zombies should be pretty easy to "Pied Piper." I don't know why they don't try it.
     
  4. trekkiebaggio

    trekkiebaggio Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's still lots of places to explore. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I'd like to see how the next generation of survivors handle things. And they can always explore what happened in different countries. It's interesting to think where the show will be in a few season's time.

    As for this episode, I thought it was the weakest one so far. It seemed to be shuffling things around to get them in place ready for the mid-season break. Merle is really fun to watch, can't wait until he and Daryl are reunited. I imagine that Carol will be involved in a conflict between them.

    Unfortunately the show's Facebook page spoiled that Maggie and Glen got captured.

    I wasn't impressed with archery girl. Perhaps it was just to show that while Woodbury is secure some of the residents have gotten lazy? Rick's group have been the brink for so long, maybe the Woodbury people have lost their edge?

    I don't think Andrea is playing the Governor, I think she's just been seduced by his charm and the surroundings.

    I really loved the last shot when Michonne showed up with the baby formula.
     
  5. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I just realized that archery girl was on Zoey 101, I heard she was fired from that show because she didn't like Jamie Lynn Spears.
     
  6. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    I think this was to show how "fake" Woodbury is. Their best shot can't really shoot. Their "death match" has the walkers relatively safe in chains.

    Don't forget -- they kill people with significant skill (and potentially a threat). The Governor actively did it with the military guys. he then sent Merle & copmany to get Michonne.

    if they're good fighters, but more important, smart enough to challenge the Governor's authority -- they are a threat.

    The conflict betwene darryl and Merle won't just involve carol..but the Governor, too. Darryl is a good warrior -- but also threat to the Governor as well. He and Rick would be at the top of the hit lists.

    i am interested to see how the rescue mission goes down. Will there be a distraction on one end, and Michonne and others swoop in for the rescue?
     
  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Andrea would have to be the key to some breakdown in internal security....not that anyone in their right mind should rely on that ass of a character. Then again, the Governor would never fully trust Andrea, so he likely has his thugs watch her for any signs of betrayal.

    About the idea of a rescue mission: I just hope the fight does not go down with Rick's less than a handfull of able bodies taking on an entire town--or large group of armed guards (sans the three Michonne killed in ep. 6). Or Rick's group mount a resuce, only to have the episode be nothing more than a setup for another "shock" death, as in the case of T-Dog and Lori.
     
  8. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    Uh, I don't think the word survival means whatever it is you think it does. The show so far has been exactly that; them surviving in a zombie apocalypse.

    Again: The same damn reason you watch any other show set in a persistent world, including our own. Very few stories have this non-existent ending you seem to be desperate for. Very, very few. Even the ones originally mentioned never ended. Voyager returned home, yay! And I guess after they did, they all retired from Starfleet and had no more adventures, and the entire Trek universe came to an abrupt end? No. Battlestar Galactica had the survivors (there's that word again) reach our Earth... so after the fade to black, they all died and nothing else happened? No.

    It's the same thing here. The only thing the Walking Dead lacks is a major goal. But, yet again, that's the norm in vaaaaaast majority of shows. And even when there is a major goal, that's not always the end point for the show. Farscape is a prime example; the main goal was for Crichton to get back to Earth. But that's not where the show ended.

    The Walking Dead is simply a drama/soap opera/character piece. There is no ending, because all the stories are about the characters living in the here and now and, once again, how they struggle to survive in a world where there is no hope for survival. That's it. That's the story. That's The Walking Dead.

    If that's not enough for you to watch it, why are you watching it? And why do you watch most everything else you watch?
     
  9. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not desperate for a fairytale ending. But having no goal is a problem. If they have no goal, then whatever ending they achieve will only elicit, "meh, so what?"

    Currently it is enough for me to watch it. But if they choose not to build on their premise or go anywhere with it (or set a goal), I'll consider it lazy writing and I'll be disappointed. Yes, like the vast majority of shows.
     
  10. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At this point I do love the show. however at some point they are going to need to establish an arc or the show is going to just become: visit new place, have things go to hell, leave it for a new place, etc. at some point that will get boring.
     
  11. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Not necessarily, but look at the arc. How many characters who were in the first season are still around now? Rick, Carl, Daryl, Merle, Andrea, Glen, & Carol. You can't seriously expect all of them to be around for the next two seasons, right? We've lost as many or more notable characters from the Atlanta camp in the same amount of time already.

    This show stands alone as being able to go on after losing any of its main characters. People are still going to watch. The show is called "The Walking Dead", not "The Georgian Survivors of The Zombie Apocalypse". As characters die, new ones are introduced, like Hershel, Maggie & Michonne. Are their stories less worthwhile than those of Rick, Daryl, & Glenn?

    I don't think so. I'd think differently if it were almost any other show, but this one can pull it off. The show isn't about Rick. It's about the zombie apocalypse, & anybody who's alive during that will have stories which can be just as interesting


    If you're looking for a guage by which to interpret the show's direction, then watch the webisodes. Most shows' webisodes at least use some people from the supporting cast of the show, but not TWD. Totally arbitrary individuals who are also in the world of the walking dead

    Every single character we have can die, as long as the stories stay fresh, imho
     
  12. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see why the show would need to change, it works fine the way it is. Not every show needs to have a specific set goal, some are just about a specific character, or group of characters lives. TNG didn't have a set goal, it was just about the E-D crew's lives. 24 didn't have a set goal (over the whole series, each season did have a specific goal) it just followed Jack's life. As long as people are interested in the lives of the characters these kinds of shows can go on indefinitely. As long as their lives are interesting, I don't have a problem with that.
     
  13. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I agree. Most shows throughout history have not had an endgame. It's all about the characters and the stories. These people are just trying to survive and find a safe place in a hostile world-- maybe in the longer term they want to rebuild civilization, but right now they just need to make it to next week.
     
  14. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But they have a goal, it's "Don't get eaten by the dead or murdered by the living", I'm not sure what you're expecting, this is not a quest where some people search for a magic stone, turn every zombie back into a living human and magically restore society to what it was before with a redeemed and living Shane making sweet love to Rick (because Lori was clearly an incarnation of the evil that wanted to kill them all).

    What kind of shows do you watch because I can't think of many that have a set goal that the characters have to reach, usually the goals are things like get money, find love, have fun or help victim of the week.
     
  15. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But I do see what Silvercrest means. I am quite confident that the writers will give us some kind of dramatic closure, which is always the most important for me. Something that wraps up the themes and provides structure to the character arcs is very common in television series. TNG did this quite well, and Lost (despite its plotholes) did this effectively as well.

    In addition to that, I bet that we will get more answers as to how the outbreak happened.
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not so sure; after Return of the Living Dead and Romero's films (and the 28 films, though they are not traditional zombie films), most avoided direct explanations for the outbreak. Most either tip-toe around it, or avoid it outright, as the writers/producers know fans will rip apart any attempt to point to a hardline answer, as the "science' of it would be chuckle-inducing at best (as in the suggested formula behind the outbreak in the 2008 Day of the Dead reboot).

    The TV Walking Dead's CDC trip was careful to skate around providing answers, only revealing that everyone is alleged to be infected--with...something.

    On the other side, many want to avoid a religious explanation, as many productions often dip into the atheist pool with characters openly balking at the outbreak being a form of prophecy unfolding, or a general statement on mankind's "sentence" (TWD has several characters like this, including a cut scene of a pissy Dale listening to a radio broadcaster exploring the religious idea).

    So, we end up with no reason at all---it just happens, so on that note for both character and viewer, there's not much hope or answer, other than to keep running...and how long can that go on before it becomes stale, or stuck in repeat mode of temporary safety, infighting, external threats, and a shock zombie attack on a main cast member?
     
  17. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you are watching this show for the zombie plot then I would agree, but TWD only uses the zombie apocalypse setting as a backdrop to the main story. The main story is the interaction between the main characters and how they react when faced with the end of the world. This is why the show is so popular, not because of the zombies (although that what might have gotten people in the door).

    Like the best of Star Trek, this show rises above its own premise to be a thoroughly human drama.

    The show could easily have been about survivors on a deserted island or have been placed after a nuclear holocaust, or even people stranded on another world or in the distant past. If you were to have taken the quality of the writing in TWD and given it to Terra Nova then that show would have been the success and TWD would have been cancelled after its first few episodes.

    So, yes, if you are waiting for plot developments that surprise you and the characters are not your main reason for watching then I would suggest finding another show than interests you--there are many out there.
     
  18. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    That's the point: TWD's reason to be is horror--specifically what video games companies refer to a "survival horror," which includes human drama. however, if TWD is only using that bait with the intent of just being another relationship drama, then it will lose its audience, as they can get that with CSI, Grey's Anatomy, or any other ensemble drama.

    The reason to be cannot be used as a gimmick that's pushed aside in favor of doing what every other TV ensemble drama of the past 40 years have all done in one way or another, or ultimately, what's the point?

    Arguably, TNG's--if not the entire Rick Berman era's strongest (as in most popular) moment was The Best of Both Worlds 2-parter, which was as much about the traditional sci-fi trappings of invasion by a strange, threatening force as the drama of Picard being assimilated into the collective. The lesson there is that ST did not need to abandon strong sci-fi elements guiding a story in order to tell the so-called "human adventure" in the form of the triumph and agony of life.

    They should support each other as seen in TBoBW, not one element edging the other into the background.

    If you remove the governor being morbid with his scabby, dead daughter, and keeping a collection of severed heads, then what does he--and his town become? Certainly, every survivor or group does not need the ghoul factor to operate in that world (like Rick's group pre and post farm with zombie barn), but as the series moves on, it just becomes another talking head exercise if the "survival" is separated from the "horror."

    TWD is not yet at that point, but it could go in that direction, if the series followed the ideas of some fans who think its only about people with problems (with each other).
     
  19. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with you that the strength of BoBW comes from the combination of elements, as does much of Trek--but if the series were only BoBW every week then it wouldn't have lasted seven seasons.
     
  20. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    *shudder* I'm not sure even TWD would go that far on basic cable, but... maybe.

    So I guess we're not gonna get Head!Lori as an ongoing element? Shame, but I did like the way they had Rick's hallucinations play out for one episode at least.

    *insert requisite bitching about Andrea*
     

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