The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by PsychoPere, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. Kosh Naranek

    Kosh Naranek Captain Captain

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    Why would they need to keep Hershel's farm? If they are trying to keep their humanity would strong arming an old man for his resources be the way to go? I would say no.

    If they needed a safe base, could they not have established their own base of operations? If there was one big farm there, would their not be others?

    I think some of them were still tied to the idea of going to Benning. Some saw the comfort and liked the stability. I don't know that they all had made a conscious choice. I think Rick had because Lori is pregnant. He wanted to stay at H's place. So did Carol and Daryl because of Sophia.
     
  2. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. We all may know that we're animals at heart, but that doesn't mean our society and morality isn't worth holding onto and preserving for as long as possible, or that we toss them aside the second everything goes to shit.

    To suggest that the ONLY way to survive in that world is by becoming as cold and ruthless as Shane wants to be is ridiculous. Yeah, that method may work, but it's not the only one, as we've seen.
     
  3. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

    I get the impression all that was just an excuse, and it was more that Hershel just couldn't bring himself to kill his family and friends (as painful as it was to see Sophia like that, imagine if you had that same attachment to every person in the barn).

    And everone's piling on Hershel for being so unreasonable, but the thing I loved about the episode is you could kind of understand everyone's point of view. I probably wouldn't be comfortable with all those unpredictable, hot-headed people on MY farm either, to be honest. Lol
     
  4. Horta Burger

    Horta Burger Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

     
  5. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "... unpredictable, hot-headed, HEAVILY ARMED people..."

    Yeah, funny about that!
     
  6. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While Shane wants to be a leader, Rick IS a leader. He’s willing to take on the dirty jobs because they have to get done and no one else is willing to do them. Even Darryl couldn’t bring himself to shoot Sophia. At that moment, he must’ve understood Herschel as he hadn’t before.

    I liked how Glenn asked Maggie if it was okay. She’s seen what they can do and realizes her mom and brother (or stepmom or whatever) are long gone. What’s left are unfeeling creatures intent on killing her.

    Gotta wonder what all this is gonna do to Carl next season. His attitudes are still forming. Without sucking ALL the time, I hope they show his conflicts, because they’re likely to be the visible versions of what the adults cannot bring themselves to express as much. They’ll just be mad until they finally act, Carl will act out from the start. I hope.
     
  7. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    Amen!


    Actually, i'm a born again Christian. But i understand why people "hate" Christians mixed with politics, and was trying to connect with them.

    While a lot has changed, there are some things that at least should remain the same, and can since the "zombie virus" didn't automatically kill human compassion -- that still remains a choice.




    I don't know why people are saying Rick was being indecisive. He was "negotiating". Though it was taking time, he was building Herschel's trust. By even mentioning the Walkers in the barn as people, it really grabbed Hershel's attention. Had Rick been allowed to continue to "negotiate", it might have opened Herschel up to reality.

    But by Shane's disregard, i could see Herschel possibly playing along for a while, but then quietly plotting to find a way to kill Shane, before someone innocent, or someone just as "right" as Shane gets killed for defying him.

    Shane's insistence that they had to kill the Walkers now is an hyperbole -- this was aYellow alert situation, not red alert. The walkers didn't eat them while they slept, as Dale noted. And they were keeping watch now, which could work while Rick was negotiating

    For those who really stand with Shane's "leadership", consider this:

    It's much wiser to inspire people to follow you to the gates of hell, than to inspire them to send there on your own.
     
  8. Aeon

    Aeon Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm sure this has been already said, but... the difference between Rick and Shane is that Rick is able to do all the same dirty and difficult choices, but he can still keep his humanity intact. Sure, he is also much more diplomatic, but when push comes to shove, he will deliver without a doubt.
     
  9. auntiehill

    auntiehill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^Exactly. It's why Shane froze when he saw Sophia, but Rick was able to step up, no matter how much it hurt him, and put her down.
     
  10. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    That's it right there. As Aeon mentioned, Rick is a diplomat, not a nutcase.
     
  11. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah it was a very manageable situation, as unpleasant as it was. Even if Hershel never did change his mind, I think it would have been well worth playing by his rules if it meant being able to stay.

    Hell, considering the crazy new world they find themselves in, an old man keeping a bunch of zombies in a barn doesn't seem all THAT strange. After a couple weeks, it would probably seem as routine as anything else.
     
  12. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

    Not really. They do appear to be half-rotted corpses that by known medical science shouldn't be moving and acting at all... and yet, they are moving and acting and biting and eating. Zombies don't just move, they move with intent - they desire to eat living flesh. It's really pretty plausible to entertain the notion that the zombies are still alive in some sense.
     
  13. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    They move because a zombie apocolypse show would be boring without zombies, not because there's any medical explanation that would allow them to do so. They've cut into zombies before, the flesh is just dead. They SHOULDN'T be able to move, intent or not. Horrible wounds=no blood=nothing to keep muscles alive and functioning=stationary, dead zombies. Plus without eating far more regularly, they wouldn't even have the energy to moan. And in the 100 degree (mentioned on screen) Georgia heat, they'd have exploded in the sun after a few days. No water, no way to cool down, etc. How long does rotting meat last in the fun before it just falls apart? Better yet, before it's covered in so many flies that it's eaten down to the bones?

    It's ok to suspend disbelief and just go with it, not so much to entertain reasons for why it would make sense in real life, because there aren't any.
     
  14. Derishton

    Derishton Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think Shane is becoming a Rorschach test - and by that, I mean the character from the Watchmen. If you read Watchmen and think Rorschach is the hero, you might be inclined to think Shane is in any sense admirable. In fact, Rorschach at least has ethics and not simply principles: Shane is all about his survival and, to a lesser extent, the survival of his personal group. Rick thinks about the bigger picture, the possibility of a bigger group whose needs might all be met. That's not vacillation. That's leadership.
     
  15. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

    The zombie plague "process" that animates dead bodies is established as fact; it has to be for the nature of the show. But from what the CDC guy said and what has been show, it is actual death and decomposition. What has been shown to support the leap that the process is reversible?



    Justin
     
  16. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

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    Anyone who thinks Shane is anyway a leader or a hero needs their brain checking, he is a horrible evil person + a giant ticking time bomb.
     
  17. Derishton

    Derishton Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure I'd go that far, although Allan Moore has always expressed surprise that anybody thinks Rorschach is the hero of Watchmen. Shane is built a little differently as a character, but it does look as though Shane would appeal to certain political sentiments or beliefs about leadership. Or would be like Rambo, in that he becomes a kind of fantasy site for those who crave strong-man bully leadership.
     
  18. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

    Quite. One of Shane's strengths as a character - and this episode is a great example of it - is exposing the whole 'if I was in a zombie apoalypse' logic. A lot of the appeal of the zombie apocalypse fantasy is picturing oneself as the person with the primal amoral will to survive, doing whatever it takes, and so on. The series kind of exposes this in Shane as basically a kind of sociopathic cowardice.

    What makes Shane interesting as a character is despite how low he's sunk, and how naturally this lowness comes to him, he wants to be the hero. He wants to do good. He wants to believe that his ends justify all his means. He's the same guy who'll beat a man to a pulp for abusing his wife and then try to rape someone else's.

    The man is a ticking time bomb, and also one of the best reasons to keep watching the show.

    Of course, but the behaviour of zombies by necessity requires one to reasses how we define living or dead. They do behave like living things, that they consistently desire food - that they desire at all - is a pretty strong practical evidence of that.

    So for Hershel to consider the zombies living makes perfect sense. And while it's possible there may be no cure, that can also be said about many illnesses - the response to an incurable illness isn't necessarily to kill your patient. The shed thus was kind of a moral equivalent to a mental hospital, which is no doubt why Hershel brought up the example of schizoprenics - schizoprenics may be dangerous, schizoprenics may never get better, but that doesn't mean you shoot them in the head.


    Not something that Hershel was ever told, however. This was one of the bigger oversights for me in how the group behaved (not that they're known for their foresight or competence).
     
  19. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Something tells me Hershel wouldn't have put much stock in what the CDC said anyway.
     
  20. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: What Hershel saw (and how it changed him)

    Why would he have to be told? The evidence before his own eyes (and nose) would seem pretty convincing. Why would Herschel think that he could "restore" a body with tissues in that condition any more than he could for one who had died the old-fashioned way? I can't think of any reason except he's not thinking rationally on that point.



    Justin