The Star Trek Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Spocklight, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Having recently re-watched TWOK, TSFS and TVH in a row for the first time (having not seen TSFS or TVH in around 15+ years) for my Podcast, Spocklight, and I must say I never, until now at least, appreciated just how much of a true trilogy they are. I think for some reason I always saw TWOK and TSFS as more of a two-parter but this is not the case.

    I was just wondering what people thoughts were on this being a trilogy of films when the rest of the series tends to stand alone for the most part. Do you think it worked as a film trilogy? Why do you think this decision was made? Would you have preferred stand alone movies? Does anyone else find it odd that essentially, the crew don't get back to their mission proper really in the film series until the final moments of the 4th film?
     
  2. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They make a great trilogy. If only the TNG films were made this way then they would have probably been more successful.
     
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  3. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    That would have been a really interesting way to go. I wonder what kind of form a TNG trilogy would have taken.
     
  4. Romulan Loyalist

    Romulan Loyalist Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It was a great Trilogy... It told a complete story arc... TNG I think they tried to do something different.. In that, they tried to create a movie series reminiscent of the TNG series itself.. Not connected, although vaguely connected.. If that makes sense. They all take place after each other, and they all mention events either in prior movies or prior series episodes.. but they aren't continuations of the storyline like TOS did for those 3..

    I think if they had done a story arc of sorts - it would have been much more successful. Perhaps they could have expanded the Borg invasion to more than the time travel plot and end... INS was 'ok' - but it was just a really long episode.. Nemesis was poorly executed - but the story had promise.. If they had taken a follow up movie to show perhaps a real war with the Borg - and then leading up to the Nemesis plot-line perhaps with instability in the RSE caused by the Borg invasion, or perhaps after finishing the Borg War scenario in 2 or 3 TNG movies, they could have evolved the Romulan sotryline with more about the clone, more about the uprising, and more in depth conflicts, or cooperation with the RSE and UFP surrounding the rise, war with, and fall of Shinzon... Could have made several more movies with TNG.. However I believe Brent Spiner was wanting out of the Data gig - due to being much older and less in shape than a never aging android would be... And frankly without Data TNG is mising a key element that completes the Crew.

    Would be like having a TOS movie without Spock - and that is something that just doesn't work. The entire dynamic is out of sync and doesn't work very well.

    We could see a reboot of TNG at some point... After all, they rebooted TOS - why not the second most popular Trek incarnation. Rebooting TNG seems to be the next logical step. So you may get to see a TNG movie arc at some point.
     
  5. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Wow, I never even thought about the idea of rebooting the TNG crew as well. Dream casting choices?
     
  6. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That would be a great thread to start.
     
  7. velour

    velour Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was it by design for TWOK, TSFS and TVH to be a trilogy, or was it just by happenstance?

    The next movie that came after TWOK had to address the matter of Spock's demise. It couldn't avoid that. The movie that followed TSFS had to deal with the matter of Kirk's stealing and destroying of the Enterprise. That also couldn't be avoided.

    Were those 3 movies planned out to be a trilogy from the outset, or did it just worked out that way?
     
  8. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Captain Captain

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    I think they do work as a trilogy. But now that I think about it, all six TOS films are kinda one long character arc for Spock, in which he finally comes to terms with and embraces his human side. The events of TMP are the catalyst for his transformation across the next five films. At the beginning of TMP, he's way more cold and distant than he'd been in the series. After his encounter with V'ger, he's practically a changed man. He talks about "this simple feeling" he shares with Kirk, their bond of friendship. It forces him to question whether logic is essentially the "be all, end all" of his relationship with the universe. In TWOK, he sacrifices himself for what are "logical" reasons, but his last words are of love: "I have been and always shall be your friend." When he's brought back to life in TSFS, his memories are reignited from seeing his friends again. I have to watch TVH and TFF again to see the elements of that arc. But in TUC, he tells Valeris "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end." And when the Enterprise is decommissioned at the end of the movie, he says they should tell Starfleet to "Go to hell" so they can have one more victory lap. How illogical, yet very human.

    I clearly haven't examined this train of thought that much yet, so I'll have to watch the TOS movies again soon (yay!)
     
  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    As far as I am aware they didn't set out to make a trilogy. When TWOK was made, I don't think that had any plans to make a third movie.
     
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  10. arch101

    arch101 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A trilogy with an epilogue. TUC is definitely a chapter in the story that ran from TWOK to TVH.
     
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  11. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The trilogy gave the Classic Series' movies a purpose and a reason to be there that all audiences could embrace. TMP, of course, had the benefit of being the first and it legitimises itself. After that, the movies would've seemed and felt rather superfluous, especially considering that this was an aging cast. By milking the consequences of Spock's death for as long as it could, the franchise was valid. And by the time the trilogy wrapped up, the studio was ready to button up the series - which, of course, it did.

    The TNG movies, as much as I love them, have no reason to exist, except as "entitlement." Burton isn't burdened with that VISOR, anymore. Spiner's still stuck in the makeup, but Data's got an emotion chip, Marina gets to talk normal and Stewart gets to be an action star. So, at least the cast got something new out of it. But for the audience, there is this sort of impression of, "oh ... you didn't like that TNG movie? OK, well ... how about THIS one? No? You didn't like that? OK ... how about ... THIS?!" At least Frakes was behind the wheel for a couple outings, which probably helped matters more than anyone can know ...
     
  12. Spot261

    Spot261 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Three consecutive conferences?
     
  13. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Could you elaborate as to why you believe TUC to be an epilogue of the Trilogy? I assume you're referring to the emotional closure over the death of Kirk's Son, or are is there something else?
     
  14. alensatemybuick1

    alensatemybuick1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Sulu got his command, as was originally intended in TWOK and TSFS.

    Valeris started out as Saavik (and had it stayed as originally intended would have made her betrayal so much more devastating).

    Pretty sure there was even a scene planned with Maltz testifying at Kirk's trial. (ON EDIT: cannot find any evidence of this; perhaps my memory fails here).

    AND...

    "I've been dead before".

    The first two items never made it to the finished films, but the Klingon ambassador did ("there will be no peace as long ss Kirk lives") and reference was made by Chang to Kirk's disobeying orders and being demoted for it

    So the intention for TUC to follow from events of ST II through IV seems pretty clear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  15. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Interesting stuff @alensatemybuick1

    We'll be recording our TUC episode next month so will make for a new experience watching the film through the lens of it being an epilogue to the earlier Trilogy. First trek film I saw in the Cinema :)
     
  16. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Captain Captain

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    Your new logo plays on my sympathies. Looking forward to listening to your first episode on my drive home today.
     
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  17. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    earth...but when?...spock?
    its in the DC comic book The Trial of James T Kirk
     
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  18. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    @Balok's Eggnog I remember your TMP love from the wrath of khan backlash thread :D

    I'm sorry to say that I'm not quite a believer that there is no comparison just yet where TMP is concerned lol but between the three of us I think its a balanced overview of the film so I really hope you enjoy the Pod, thanks man :)
     
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  19. Spocklight

    Spocklight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    And credit for our logo must go to Stephen Trumble, an incredible Artist I'm lucky enough to call a friend.
     
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  20. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    I honestly see it as more than just a trilogy, as all of them are linked in one way or another, except TMP. It's a chronological series that all play on themes from earlier installments. 3 was the completion of the Spock death from 2, as well as further development of the Genesis effect. 4 was literally the voyage home from the end of 3. 5 was the maiden voyage of the new ship they're given in 4, & 6 had an underlying Kirk arc that had his bias heavily rooted in the murder of his son in 3
     
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