THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JD, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. Nerroth

    Nerroth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I got my copy of the Director's Cut... er, stand-alone edition today, and read through it surprisingly quickly. (Or maybe I didn't notice the time passing so much when reading it.)


    Some of the additional parts were very nice to see - but the Vanguard stuff felt a little less coherent, not least when building up towards, then leading back down from, a short story that is printed in another volume. To me, it felt like the effort would have been more rewarding had the events of The Black Flag had been shown in this work, instead of leaving a point hanging that someone won't see unless they go and buy Shards and Shadows.

    (Even if the events were shown from an alternate perspective, so as to leave the version in S&S equally valid, or something.)


    Also, I have to say that while I understand why a character like Mirror-Decker was portrayed in the manner he was, I still find it more disturbing than I'd really care for to read some of the ways in which his cruelty towards Takeshewada-san was made manifest.

    (I didn't feel overly comfortable reading some of how mirror-Reyes acted in The Black Flag, either, to be honest.)


    In all, I suppose it's hard to judge the story as a whole like this, when I feel that perhaps I might have felt differently had I not read the abridged version from Glass Empires first.


    I have to say, though, that I'm probably not going to rush back to reading about the Mirror Universe... at least until, or unless, the time finally comes for the oppressed people of the Alliance, alongside the holdouts in Memory Omega, finally get to Rise Like Lions!


    (Or if they have the wormhole open up and introduce a mirror Dominion, perhaps.)
     
  2. Thrawn

    Thrawn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Interesting. I haven't read the Mirror Universe stuff yet, and was planning on reading the expanded Sorrows Of Empire in place of the shorter one from the trade, but do everything else in publication order, reading Shards & Shadows last. Would you recommend I read the Vanguard story before reading this book?
     
  3. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Loved the Big Bang Theory reference! :) And the story was pretty cool, too. Best ST novel I've read in awhile. Thanks, Mr. Mack.
     
  4. Nerroth

    Nerroth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wouldn't be so sure about that.

    I guess, if you had both books to hand, you could stop reading The Sorrows of Empire once you get to 2276, switch to The Black Flag, then jump back in again after that.

    (There are other, later, points you could stop at, perhaps - anywhere up to the start of chapter 22, really - but that was just one example.)
     
  5. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

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    ^This talk of jumping around the MU timeline sounds interesting. Someone should make a little chart saying which stories come in what order so we can read it all chronologically. There were two novella collections, an anthology, the DS9-R MU books, the expanded Sorrows of Empire, and the upcoming story in the Seven Deadly Sins anthology. Am I missing anything?
     
  6. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    We don't know where it will fit in yet, but there will be a MU story (or is it novella?) in Seven Deadly Sins.
     
  7. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

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    ^I know. I mentioned it in the post above your last one :vulcan:.
     
  8. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Ooops, I didn't see in in your list.:crazy::brickwall:
     
  9. DarkHorizon

    DarkHorizon Captain Captain

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    KRAD wrote an MU chronology in issue 142/US #15 of Star Trek Magazine - it covers up to, and including, Shards and Shadows.
     
  10. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

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    Sweet :techman:. Do you know where can I find a copy of it online? I don't think my local Chapters has any copies of #15 left...
     
  11. DarkHorizon

    DarkHorizon Captain Captain

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    They wouldn't anyway - the issue is a year old.

    Titan Magazines has it in its available back issues, or there's always eBay.
     
  12. Hamilton

    Hamilton Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    So, I read it all in a couple of hours last night.

    First, WOW!!!

    Second, the story flowed very well... there were no wasted words, everything tied together beautifully.

    As for Spock's character, I find all of his actions logical. In order for him to achieve his goals, he had to be just as ruthless as the others in his universe. After all, what would be the point if he allowed anyone or anything to possibly threaten his plan?

    All in all, it's a fantastic read. I'm going to have to buy a copy for my coworker, instead of letting him borrow mine... I'm not willing to part with it.
     
  13. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    ^ Glad you enjoyed it. :)
     
  14. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

    I've had no interest in the MU collections, but I'm getting this.
     
  15. Smiley

    Smiley Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I bought this solely to help the chances of seeing the culmination of Spock's plan in print someday. I thought the original version was almost perfect. I like some of the added chapters on their own, but they break the narrative momentum and focus that the Glass Empires version has. No offense, David, but I'll be giving the expanded version to the public library since the first version is the only one I'll reread in the future.
     
  16. OverlordSpock

    OverlordSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Just finished the expanded version. Really liked it!

    I loved getting more details about the slow fulfillment of Spock's plan and liked getting peeks at other areas of the MU.

    Narratively, there were a few places that seemed a little...awkward isn't quite the right word. There were just places that I could tell that new stuff was grafted on. But it wasn't so bad as to ruin the book for me. Just something I noticed.

    I really hope that Rise Like Lions sees the light of day someday!
     
  17. KingstonTrekker

    KingstonTrekker Commander Red Shirt

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    Loved your book David. Then again, I like everything you write!

    However, I felt that the Sorrows of Empire could have been even longer...for example, I would have liked to have seen the Carol Marcus/Memory Project outlined in more detail. In addition, several of the "years" passed by too quickly which made the novel choppy in places.

    However, despite these minor quibbles, I thoroughly enjoyed the book! This is how the Mirror Universe should be depicted --- not the convoluted drivel that is currently consuming the DS9 Relaunch.

    Here's hoping your proposed follow-up Mirror Universe book gets approved!
     
  18. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    ^ Thanks. Still no word on that pitch, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  19. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    I'm definitely interested in any sequels.
     
  20. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

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    I saw this topic the other day, so I went and bought the book. I never read any of the other stories, so this was fresh to me.


    A few things bothered me (see below), but overall, I think it was a good book. First 200 pages were a bit slow but decent. Once Spock becomes Emperor, it picks up pace and the rest is fantastic.

    Here are some thoughts on the book:

    Things that I didn't like:
    1. Tantalus field is just too powerful. Absolutely ridiculous. The original episode gave you the impression that the thing works by taking out one person at the time, and there is no evidence that it works at long range. The book made it out like you can kill anybody in the known galaxy as long as you know their location. Imagine, you could assassinate the entire Romulan senate, Klingon council and invade the leaderless empires. Hoshi Sato took the advanced Defiant to Earth and became empress with a single ship; why didn't Kirk take Enterprise with the much more powerful Tantalus field, kill the senators and proclaim himself emperor? It doesn't make self that in Mirror, Mirror he's skulking around insignificant planets and doing ordinary missions as a mere captain.

    2. The inclusion of too many familiar characters. Trying to "weave" everything together is not always necessary. For example, Captain Terell, the ever-present Duras, Elaan of Troyus...they were too much. Familiar characters are good, but not too many.

    3. Why are other races not alternatives as well? It appears only humans are different in the other universe. Romulans, Cardiassians, and Klingons are unchanged.

    4. It's a bit hard to believe that so many ships were mothballed and disarmed right before the Alliance attack. I just couldn't buy it. It would have seemed more plausible if the gov't was wiped out by the trillithium device, and then disorganized military junta and chaos that followed lost to the Alliance. In a way it would have made Spock's calculations a little off and made him look imperfect. I mean, remember that episode of DS9 where those genetically engineered humans predict fall of the Federation and nobody except Bashir listens to them? It would have been nice if Spock realized that he was wrong and that things might not turn out the way he calculated. It would make the next book less predictable and more interesting.

    Things I liked:
    1. The scene on Trill. I read that it was borrowed from another novel in the afterword. I don't know the extent of borrowing, but it was my favorite scene in the book. Reminded me a bit of 20000 leagues Under the Sea.
    2. I like the idea that Sato was cloned and her dynasty went on like that. I would have liked to read more about it. Why didn't she have children? May be it's in the other books...
    3. The politics of transfer from Empire to Republic were excellent (Spock's and Sarek's plan). I do wonder how the conspirators were found out though? The assassination was planned from the top, including the director of SF intelligence?
    4. The final scene with Spock and Marlena was great. This scene could have been somehow kept even if number 4 from above happened.

    All in all, I wasn't disappointed, even though it completely contradicted William Shatner's books :klingon: