The Seven of Nine Show

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Hobyman, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. Hobyman

    Hobyman Ensign Red Shirt

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    So...as awesome as Seven of Nine is, in re-watching 'Voyager' with my partner, we've really noticed how heavily the show came to rely on her. Like, seriously...from season 4 on, most episodes seemed to revolve around her in some fashion or other. So much so that we decided to revamp the opening credits for 'Voyager' seasons 4-7 as shown at the link below. Wouldn't you agree they're more fitting? :P

    http://youtu.be/64EM7beWUEI
     
  2. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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  3. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

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    The show did revolve around her too heavily imo.

    You can't blame them really though, the combination of Jeri Ryan + Catsuit became a cultural icon, i mean she was everywhere back then, magazines, billboards etc.

    Personally I think it was overdone on the show though, and I also feel she had very poor character development in the 4 years she was on the show.

    4 years is a long time, and she was still very much the same person at the end of it that she was at the start.

    I look at Seven of nine as a child when she was first separated from the collective, in the 4 years between, she didn't "grow up" at all
     
  4. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    How grown-up were you at the mental age of 10?

    Seven was 6 years old when assimilated, and lived 4 years of her life as a former drone. You can't expect her to suddenly make up for all the missed emotional and psychological development she would normally have gone through, in such a short time.
     
  5. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    If she had reached adult emotional maturity sooner during those 4 years, she would have become just like any other adult on the show. Her significance as a "unique" character would have ended, resulting in a different performance by Ryan.
     
  6. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    This is true, but I'm looking at it from the character's perspective. Seven was a combination of a brilliant adult who had access to an incredible store of knowledge. But emotionally was a whole different thing. Because she was biologically adult, people expected her to think and act like an adult. But emotionally, she was still growing up from that 6-year-old who was assimilated.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    (I'm on your side.)

    1. I think she was 8.

    2. She was awake and watching the whole time for the first twenty years complicit and happy.

    3. While regenerating during the first 20 years, she hung out rounding off her subconscious maturity in Unimatrix Zero, that she was never quite able to access till the end, which was a clear line of before she was a woman and after she was a girl.

    4. It's clear she was (literally and non pejoratively) retarded since every week she would have to quirt through the same trial or crucible, and not learn a retainable damn thing.
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was no mental child, see was acculturated to Federation culture. Fortunately (or not) she came from a culture which prized assimilation. That is very much a hallmark of TNG Trek. Personally. I rather the show had been more:

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qcDJVHCY6U[/yt]
     
  9. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    She spent her first 6 years in Federation culture... with long periods of only being with her parents. That in itself would be enough to give her problems with social cues and interacting with others as an adult, assuming that kind of life was all she knew.

    As for that video... I'm guessing Harry would be Joxer?
     
  10. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Annika Hanson was assimilated, she was essentially deleted by the Borg through her body being grown in a maturation chamber. Seven was what walked out. So, her Borg experience after that is irrelevant. Only being non-Borg constitutes a cultural experience?
     
  11. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    What culture do the Borg have? They're basically like ants, except that instead of eating what they carry away or prey on (in the case of army ants), they assimilate their resources to make more of themselves.

    Cultural things would largely fall into the category of "irrelevant" to the Borg.
     
  12. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Good thing human cultures don't prey on and carry away the cultures of one another to ply their existence.
     
  13. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I must have totally missed the statuary and paintings the Borg carted off from the people they assimilated.

    They assimilated the technology and scientific knowledge. The rest of it was discarded as irrelevant. Did knowledge of a particular species' holidays or religious rituals change one damn thing about how the Borg did things?

    Nope.

    Did the Borg themselves create art, form social groups, celebrate holidays, participate in rituals for the purpose of expressing spirituality or fun?

    Nope.

    So: What culture did the Borg actually have beyond the same kind of hive-mind mentality that terrestrial social insects have?
     
  14. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, the soul, and when is a strawberry dead? Jam makers, the new holocaust.
     
  15. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The video is wrong. It would have to be:

    STARRING: Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine

    Co-Starring: Kate Mulgrew as Kathryn Janeway and Robert Picardo as The Doctor.

    I do agree that after she arrived, VOY became too Seven heavy and by S7 I had lost interest in it. True what she went through would have been traumatic and recovering from it would take time, as she would need to learn about being human, but not at the expense of other characters.
     
  16. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    There was the same problem with Spock, and the same problem with Data. Seven was just too much fun for the writers to work with, because they could think of more stories around her.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  17. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Hm...I have to disagree with that. She started off pretty reluctant to change and yes she stayed that way for a while. But in episodes like "Drone", "Imperfection", "Child's Play", "Body and Soul", "Unimatrix 0" and "Someone to Watch Over Me", I thought it displayed clearly that she had evolved into something more.

    In "Drone", she clearly states that the Borg Collective no longer holds any place in her life, stating (I believe it's in this episode) "Voyager is my collective". She also is visibly sad and upset when One gives himself up (commits a sort of suicide). Those are emotions she would NEVER have experienced while in the Collective.

    In episodes like "Child's Play", she shows emotions such as caring, loss, and a sort of maternal feeling for Icheb. Also even though I know some people find the Borg kids annoying, they served a purpose. The purpose was for them to invoke motherly and caring feelings in Seven. She aided in helping them change and adapt. I think in this episode it shows she has changed a lot since taking on the Borg kids somewhat as her own. In this episode in particular, she displays other emotions too besides caring and motherly instincts. She shows a kind of jealousy towards Icheb's parents, reluctance at having him leave. She feels hurt when he decides to stay with his parents, yet then realizes that if it's what is best for Icheb, then she will have to accept it. Then when she further finds out Icheb's parents' true motives, she becomes protective and fights to save him.

    "Someone to Watch Over Me" shows Seven of Nine evolving at a somewhat initial point. First of all, it is shown here that (even though it may have been at the Doctor's insistence), she did accept having someone be her teacher in the ways of humanity which shows she has a desire to change, a desire to learn. Even though she fails pretty miserably at it, she does attempt to learn to date, dance, and sing. She feels frustration when it doesn't go as planned, etc. At this point, she is still very calculative and kind of cold, but it is a decent episode showing that she IS a person underneath and can be hurt by how others feel about her and treat her.

    Also, as utterly abysmal and horrible as I believe their hook-up to be...she did end up "dating" Chakotay. Now, I personally think that relationship is bogus, was rushed, and completely not believable at all. That said, it did show that her character developed enough to be in a relationship.

    Now was she still our cold and sarcastic (also unintentionally funny) Seven? Yes. And I don't think she should have been any other way. But did she change and evolve enough to exist with other humans and even end up enjoying it somewhat? Yes, I believe so.

    And yeah like Melakon said, she's sort of the Data of Voyager. Data was still very much Data at the end of TNG and I don't think we would want him any other way. But he also evolved very much as well. But not so much that he lost who he was initially.

    To be honest, how could you really compare the Seven you see in "Scorpion" (or in some other early episodes where she clearly has no understanding of humanity)....to the person she is in those episodes such as "Drone" and "Child's Play". I mean to go from someone who completely has no self-actualization, no emotion, and...not even knowing how to EAT for goodness sakes...to someone who actually cries and sheds tears when they feel intense sadness or make jokes (albiet sarcastic and dry, but still jokes) and cook dinner and feel a full range of emotions she had never felt before...I don't think you can really compare THAT person, the person she becomes, to the person-Borg you see in "Scorpion".
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, Seven got a lot of stories dedicated to her in the show's later seasons, but stuff like the video in the OP represent a gross overexaggeration of the effect that focus had on the show itself, and represents a bit of a double standard.

    TOS was the 'Kirk, Spock, and McCoy Show', but nobody seems to make a big deal out of that, yet Voyager gets criticized for coming to increasingly rely on and emphasize the triumvirate of Janeway, Seven, and The Doctor in its later seasons.
     
  19. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    I always thought Voyager had a more distinct tier-thing going on. :lol:

    I imagine it to be like this:

    1st tier: Janeway, Seven, Doctor.
    2nd tier: Tuvok, Tom Paris, B'Elanna
    Cusp between 2nd and 3rd: Neelix
    3rd tier: Harry, Chakotay, Kes
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  20. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Seven of Nine Show? That would make a great sitcom.

    The laugh track could be a babble of Borg voices.