The Roddenberry Reputation

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Cap'n Claus, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    The second pilot is more focused on action, features no self-doubting protagonist and fewer women. So Roddenberry's claims seem fairly consistent whereas you story about the studio wanting proof that the show could be done with a smaller budget seems fishy. Why not simply cut the budget, air the pilot and shoot the series instead of wasting an entire pilot? No, they obviously wanted an admittedly only slightly different product.

    And why do people care about Roddenberry's sex life?
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Why doubt what's been reported by multiple sources over the years?

    Not so much about his sex life but how he treated women while preaching about a better future. Sort of like a religious figure preaching against homosexuality then being found gobbling a snake on the Men's Room floor.

    Roddenberry had a great vision, but the guy was a creep. A proven liar, thief and adulterer.
     
  3. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The fewer women thing is on Roddberry's head. He chose to eliminate Number One because he couldn't keep Majel in the role. Still the second pilot features a woman in a key role and one shown to be a competent and highly intelligent professional. He does make up for it in the series by have three female characters: Rand, Uhura and Chapel.

    I think Noname Given's "story" is backed up by Justman and Solow in their book. They might even have the memos.
     
  4. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Yep, burn the adulterer on the pyre. :rolleyes:
    It wasn't the middle ages but the sixties so how the hell do you know what kind of arrangement he had with his wife? Not everybody is a Puritan and adultery is no crime. Ever read stats about it? The fraction of people who cheat in their life is around .5. Talking about preaching, it looks like you will be very busy.

    Thief? Now that's a pathetic low shot, even for Roddenberry bashers. If Roddenberry is a thief every Westerner is a thief because he indirectly exploits somebody in the 3rd world.

    The guy started a sci-fi franchise I like and most of his ideas were good. Not being a saint while having a vision of a better future does not make you a hypocrite. It's as if somebody said that people who fight against climate change yet use planes are hypocrites or that rich people who want higher taxes are hypocrites.
    Obviously this is just an attempt to obfuscate that one doesn't really care about Roddenberry's vision.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    You may actually want to read up on what Roddenberry did to Justman and Courage and Fontana and Gerrold before calling it a "low-shot".
     
  6. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Agree w/ most all of the rest of your post, but I think the million figure is even a little high counting BOTH pilots, with CAGE at something like $630,000 and WHERE NO somewhere over 300 grand.
     
  7. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Life is finite, time is limited. I have better things to do than read hagiographies or condemnations of Roddenberry.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Well, here's an FYI...

    He wouldn't allow Justman, Gerrold and Fontana to have co-creator credit on TNG even though they deserved the credit. It would have upset the "Holy Order of the Rod".

    He wrote "lyrics" to the TOS end music so Alexander Courage would have to share any royalties that were made with Roddenberry.

    Just for starters...

    Roddenberry wasn't a very nice human being.
     
  9. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Backing down when faced with historical fact while trying to maintain moral superiority? Priceless.. :lol:
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is a better television story than "The Cage," so it's not remarkable that the network was happier with the second pilot.

    All of the stories about how "disappointed" Roddenberry was with making changes to the show were after the fact.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    This.

    I imagine Roddenberry was delighted that NBC didn't flush Trek after The Cage.
     
  12. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Cool story. Still waiting for the theft part though.

    First, saying that somebody deserved to get credit has nothing to do with money. Second, putting lyrics to the music can have many motives. But even if we assume that it was purely done by Roddenberry in order to get part of the future income it wasn't theft. It was a trick or an exploitation of Courage but certainly not theft.

    There is a difference between being a dick and being a thief.
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty much.
     
  14. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This, right here.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    When you angle yourself to take money/credit for other people's work, that's theft where I come from.
     
  16. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Theft is a criminal act. What you describe is exploitation and, guess what, it happens everywhere. I am sure there are many pieces of clothing in your and my wardrobe which are made in East Asia in sweat shops. So we are, in your eyes, thieves.

    Anyway, I don't care whom Roddenberry fucked or exploited. He set the benchmark for what Trek should be with his first pilot and it is no coincidence that the first season, with its echoes from The Cage like Kirk having his Hamletesque moment of doubt in Balance of Terror, is the best. Ever since its birth Trek has always been good when it was about ideas, not just adventures and action.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    You can keep trying to shift the argument away from the fact that he was a thief, a liar and an adulterer but it doesn't change who Gene Roddenberry was.
     
  18. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Looks like you are the liar as the supposed actions of Mr.Roddenberry are not theft.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    You'll just have to do your own investigative work. Maybe you'll appreciate facts more if you have to work for them...
     
  20. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like how this Horatio guy injects politics or racism or a third world exploitation element into just about every argument. It's very entertaining. It's what keeps me coming back day after day. :lol: