The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by DS9Master83, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    New York City
    because links are so much easier...
    Star Trek TNG Remastered?



    I agree with Harvey's nutshell info.
    Enterprise will get a Blu-ray release. Least amount of capital outlay from CBS Television to author the Blu-ray for a decent R.O.I. sometime in the next 2 years.

    Here are the other related threads for you to read DS9Master83

    REMASTER THE ENTIRE DEEP SPACE NINE SERIES.

    Remaster the entire Voyager Series...........

    Star Trek: Enterprise seasons Blu-ray spec. features wishlist
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    Because they wanted them to look their best, and the video-based versions used for TV at that point would not hold up on a better format.

    I applaud them for the effort.


    Oh, and I double-checked to make sure my memory was correct. :) ...

    http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle.aspx?ContentID=10084
     
  3. Truth_Seeker

    Truth_Seeker Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I recall that the later seasons of Voyager aired in 720p, so remastering them to 1080p should not be that difficult. :)
     
  4. SFRabid

    SFRabid Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Studios have already tried fooling people by releasing upscaled versions of shows and movies on blu-ray without going through a mastering process. Critics are quick to catch this and people are now more weary about what they purchase on blu-ray. You can now buy a lot of blu-ray content for under $10 that looks no better than a regular DVD played through a DVD player that upscales to HD.

    I'm not sure how much is to be made on re-releasing something on blu-ray. I just bought the Star Trek TOS movie set for less than half of retail on Amazon. A few other movies I've bought recently come with 4 discs. Blu-ray movie, regular movie, computer digital release, and extra content DVD. All for under $20. It's getting competitive out there.
     
  5. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    England's green and pleasant land.
    Thing is though the TNG and DS9 series will never look as good as Blu Ray can look, or even close, without some truly massive work. Not just remastering but almost reconstruction. They were shot on cheap film and while they look better on DVD than say, the first three seasons of Buffy, they do not look very good.

    Can't you just enjoy the story? Sometimes that really does have to be enough. Any brand new Trek show will doubtless be in HD with state-of-the-art effects and you will be able to look back on TNG much as many old shows as "of its time".
     
  6. Truth_Seeker

    Truth_Seeker Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    There's an old trick for watching low resolution video files with a better quality - play them on your PC and adjust the Windows resolution to 1024x768 or even 800x600. This way they look much better than when you watch them on a Full HD television screen. :)
     
  7. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Film's still got a ton more latitude than any other originating format, so I don't know where you get off dismissing it. Maybe when there is a 4K TV set in ____ years, you'll be able to really SEE just how much info there is on a 35mm film frame.

    And it wasn't CHEAP either ... stock price is such a concern that some pictures shoot 3-perf instead of 4-perf to save 25% of the film cost (they will sacrifice that much just to be able to shoot on film as opposed to digital capture.)
     
  8. Nick Ryder

    Nick Ryder Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI Da Brew City
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    You recall incorrectly. VOY has never aired in HD. (And by that I mean actually *in* HD, as opposed to upconverted SD.)

    A show that was never made in HD can't air in that format.
     
  10. Truth_Seeker

    Truth_Seeker Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Actually all you need is a DVD-ROM/Recorder device and preferably a larger monitor (20''-22''). :)

    P.S. I almost forgot abou the software. You need to install the program Power DVD and K-Lite Codec Pack to watch them!
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  11. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    England's green and pleasant land.
    If TNG is in decent nick on film they did a TERRIBLE job of putting it on DVD, same for DS9.

    I'm clearly not dissing film full stop but Trek does not look good on DVD, and was put together with a bit of care, so logically without a massive amount of work it would not look good on Blu Ray.

    Well I don't actually remember saying they should drop film in favour of digital anywhere, I was just talking about the apparent quality of the masters used for the DVDs.

    Now with a complete remaster, including rebuilding the SFX, going back, rescanning and cleaning up the negative and really doing a super job, I'm sure all the shows would look amazing. Would cost an absolute fortune though.
     
  12. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    That's the point, TNG and DS9 (and Voyager) do not have film masters, they were edited on videotape. All the shows were shot on film but they weren't edited on film because videotape was faster and/or cheaper for that process, and what is on the DVDs is the transfer from videotape, which is why they look so crappy.

    If any of the shows is to be released on blu-ray it would involve collecting all the film (which supposedly still exists) and editing it all together shot for shot so that it matches the original videotape master. It would be a long, expensive process, especially once the special effects are added into the mix, so it's not likely to ever happen.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    ^ Although I believe the editing "cues" (if this is the right term) still exist, so the original editing could be reconstructed through software. Assuming the new FX sequences have exactly the same length of time as the originals, I think they could make it work.
     
  14. cubdukat

    cubdukat Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    I'd settle for a DVD remastering. I'm currently watching the 3rd season of DS9 on DVD, and I don't remember the image quality being quite that bad. The bitrate doesn't even break 5 megabits per episode most of the time, and for a dual-layer disc without supplementary materials, that's just wrong.

    I suspect Paramount probably abandoned the upscaling approach because they knew fans would never stand for it. So I would suspect the only avenues left for them are digging up all the film elements they used and re-compositing everything for HD, or redoing the effects in CGI. Personally, I think they should avoid the last one, given the disappointing (IMHO) job CBS Digital did with TOS. There were so many opportunites they just missed.
     
  15. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    New York City
    DS9 & TNG

    This is not going to happen. DS9 DVD sets have made their money and CBS Home Video knows it. TNG is still a property though that can bring in money and the next avenue would be syndication in high definition as well as Blu-ray releases of fan collectives to start.
     
  16. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Frankly I think they look fine the way they are. I'm rewatching my DS9 DVDs on my blu-ray player and new 40 inch HD TV and the show looks better than it ever did. I highly doubt I would shell out more money for this show that I already own.
     
  17. Magellan

    Magellan Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    TNG, DS9 and Voyager will all get a blu ray release, it's inconceivable that they would pass up this chance. It's my bet that it will be some kind of upscaling though. Most people wont even know the difference anyway. After a few years I could see a proper HD re-edit of TNG, maybe for it's 30th anniversary, but not for the other two.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Oh, I think they will. And that's why it won't happen.

    Why should Paramount go through all the trouble of releasing the shows on Blu-Ray without making them HD? Doing so would give exactly the same result as if the standard definition DVDs are played on a Blu-Ray player. (Remember, all HDTVs upscale all standard definition content anyway.) So why would they bother re-releasing the shows in a manner that will not give them anything new?
     
  19. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Paramount could do what some more recent shows have done, like FIREFLY, in which the live action material is in 1080P but the visual effects are only at 480P. Of course, FIREFLY was originally shown that way, so it would take more work for a similar release of STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, etc.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    What would be the point? All the work talked about in this and other threads would still have to be done. Retrieving, scanning and re-editing all the original film elements. Then you would still have to re-do the effects (current ones which look terrible in 1080p).

    If The Next Generation gets redone, I imagine they will go ahead and future proof it by doing the digital masters in 4k resolution.