The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Oct 14, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    14.4%
  2. Above Average

    35.9%
  3. Average

    31.4%
  4. Below Average

    13.7%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you want to quibble, there *was* blood on the knife. :p

    Still, I think the true nature of the boy is irrelevant. Real or manifestation, the boy was real to Cavil -- and that's all that matters, symbolically at least. And yes, I get that the boy represents the last hope for redemption, for humanity within that particular version of Cavil. Still, it's a kitschy development, done more for, in my opinion at least, shock value than anything else (like the gratuitous nudity). Like I said, I get the symbolism, but it seemed disingenuous to me.

    I'd have had more respect for the film had it taken on a Of Mice And Men or "To A Mouse" tack, detailing how the "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley." But this wasn't even the "best laid schemes." It was, simply, the desperate ad-hoc plots of a cookie-cutter evil-guy who, despite the natural charisma of Dean Stockwell, was nowhere near as entertaining or compelling as John Colicos's Baltar who was, at the very least, unabashedly a cookie-cutter madman villain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  2. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Cavil was far more interesting than TOS Baltar who was more of a mustache twirling villain taken from Scooby Doo (I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids...).

    Cavil was an emotionally stunted, immature "child" with a lot of power and he didn't fully understand humans or his own emotions (perhaps self hatred at even having such emotion). After all who was Hitler? He wasn't a cartoon but he was a legitmately fucked up individual who was at a certain place in time, and took full advantage of the situation to unleash his own inner crap upon the world.
     
  3. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some pics,

    The new California Highway Patol?

    [​IMG]

    Caprica City
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Libron:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Blue_Trek

    Blue_Trek Captain Captain

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    I liked it, some surprising parts.
    One thing I didn't get was if there was a temporary peace treaty why did the two Cavil's get blown out the air lock?

    Also you can see the disagreements between Cavil and the all the other models forming much earlier.

    The Cavils sure don't care about his Cylon brothers & sisters he wants them all to kill themselves for the cause but he won't himself.
     
  5. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    As I recall, the Colonials never signed up to that treaty. It was just the Cylons deciding to try something different.
     
  6. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I want higher res caps of Caprica City to use as my desktop wallpaper. Pre-attack of course, otherwise its too depressing. :)
     
  7. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's really cool how they used the pyramid shaped buildings, since they were in the original series as well.


    -Chris
     
  8. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think nudity was there for shock value. ;)

    If that's what they were going for, they would've had Dean Stockwell, Michael Hogan and EJO nude. :p
     
  9. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    ^^
    My eyes! My eyes!

    Although Michael Hogan did say, "there's a good chance you'll get to see me naked." :lol:
     
  10. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wasn't there a naked Dean Stockwell in The Ties that Bind?
     
  11. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, although it was not full frontal (or full back) nudity that we can see with a few of the extras in The Plan - it was nudity of the TV variety. But I remember a lot of people freaking out over it when the episode aired (probably not as much as they freaked out about the kiss with Boomer, though...).
     
  12. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Average

    It was decent, but I was hoping for a lot more depth and maybe something to take away from it in real world life. If the message of this entire series was life outtrumps death and Cavil just came across as a big angry bully, I have to wonder if that was profound enough. I wish most of that depth came with the first twenty minutes actually being most of the film. I wanted hints of the interactions with the final 5, why this plan was so important, and just for the writers to show the perspective of the Cylons and really get down deep in the trenches. I don't think they did that very well.

    I give it average mainly because I loved those first twenty minutes (Especially Cavil and Ellen in the bar) and there were some good moments sprinkled in between, like Simon and the family. Still, a lot of it felt clip show-like, the killing of the kid was a bit over-the-top (I understand why they did it though, mainly to show the difference in personality of the two Cavils), and it just wasn't the thing I was expecting.
     
  13. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    Negatives:

    1) Too many "archive footage" scenes.

    2) We don't learn anything new... well, at least nothing new that would be awfully important.


    Positives:

    1) Dean Stockwell.

    2) Rick Worthy, particularly the "Fleet Simon" storyline.

    3) The destruction of the Colonies.
     
  14. spocksbrain

    spocksbrain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    For a clip show, it was great. For what it was supposed to be (i.e., a "new take" with plenty of "surprises" and, presumably, something to make up for the disappointing ending to the series), it was gods damn awful.

    It reminded me of the webisodes SyFy aired: a focus on the B-actors with the A-actors not appearing at all. Other than the Cylons, anytime you saw any of the A-actors, it was only in the form of clips.

    In the end, the final episode of the series was terrible and this was just rubbing salt in the wounds. Grade: C-, possibly a D+.
     
  15. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was rather disappointed by this. Too many clips from the show wasting time explaining whats happenign in the scenes which I found pointless as a casual viewer is going to be lost anyway. It got rather annoying after a while. The destruction of the colonies to guitar music was a very poor choice and sucked out the emotional impact of what a terrible thing has just happened.

    Agent Boomer of season 1 was totally ruined, she was programmed to think she was human and her cylon programming kicks in when she needs to do some bad shit. But now it's a hypnotizing toy Elephant. Totally sucked out the mystery and gave a poor backround story. Also Boomer's return in season 2s downloaded is who? The secret agent boomer or the human boomer. Just doesn't make sense.

    Also what of this really explains anything of the Cylon plan? What about the Plan for the Cylon child? Or how about using the deleted scenes of Season 2 with Gina.
     
  16. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1. The elephant was just a switch, it didn't mean anything other than to trigger programming. Hypnotized people can be made to work the same way.

    2. Hera was the hope for continuing the cylon race after Resurrection was destroyed. That was clear in the series, what else do you need?

    3. The music during the bombing of the colonies? Really? I thought Bear's music heightened the emotional impact.
     
  17. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, so it's the same as Hypnotisim. But this is a machine. The first season gave the impression that her programming kicked in. Waving the elephant infront of her to bring her out of her sleep was a bit lame. The most advanced living machines that can transfer their mind to another body yet they need an object to bring them in and out of an hypnotic/programmed state.

    As was the rest of "The Plan". The Cylons wanted to destroy Humans. I didn't learn anything new about that. So why not focus on the other part of the big plan.

    I love his music but I felt it's too upbeat for such a scene. I thought it's being too cool and stylish about the destruction of a civilisation.
     
  18. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think of Boomer as a machine...not much more than you or I. They were at best an artificial biological machine...which makes them biological and while different than Colonial humans, still biological. After all in the series, Hera is the mother of humanity to a degree.

    And the destruction of the colonies music wasn't about the suffering of the Colonials, but of the swift and brutal efficiency of the Cylon attack.

    I dont think you were going to learn any mind blowing new information, that would have cheapened the series. This was an addon movie that scifi wanted filmed after the show had wrapped if I remember. The Plan just sounded better than Cavil and Simon plus Misc.
    For all that it was intended to be it was pretty good.
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Plan is told from the point of view of the Cylons, and at that time the destruction of the colonies was a massive triumph for them. We've already seen the destruction of the colonies from the colonial point of view in the miniseries, and the music in the miniseries was appropriately downbeat.
     
  20. Checkmate

    Checkmate Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Yeah, that's something I never quite understood about the show. The Skinjobs were clearly not Cylons. They were just an off-shoot of Humanity who, after thousands of years of independent existence, developed a new form of technology that let them download their consciousness.

    When their version of Cylons (which is apparently Kobolian for "robots with an AI") rose up and destroyed them, their survivors escaped and attempted to return to the other offshoot of the Kobolians (for lack of a better term); the Colonists. They met up with the Colonial Cylons before that happened and (after having had a few more centuries to advance their technology during the trip), convinced them to stop plotting an attack on the Colonies in exchange for creating more of their race... from scratch.

    So at best the eight models are tailored clones infused with an artificially-created memories and personalities. They're certainly not Cylons. Going with the Kobolian definition of the term, since both the Colonists and Off-Shoots adopted it, they're half-Cylon at best... and only due to having an artificially-created-but-wholly-real intelligence.
     

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