The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Oct 14, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    14.4%
  2. Above Average

    35.9%
  3. Average

    31.4%
  4. Below Average

    13.7%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. WeAreTheBorg

    WeAreTheBorg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think reaction to this piece is all about expectations.

    If you're expecting a stand-alone episiode/movie that works on it's own merits... this clearly isn't that.

    If you're expecting a grand revealing story about the mythos and mysteries of BSG, this isn't that either.

    What it is is a simple look at the cylon perspective of the first 2 seasons of the show, as a complementary companion piece to the show and nothing more. On that level, it succeeds brilliantly.
     
  2. USS Avenger

    USS Avenger Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh I am not saying that humanity was blameless in all of this. In fact I think BSG did a great job of showing how decadent and perverse the human culture had become. Adama's speech about asking whether humanity deserved to survive had its merits.
    That said I think the armistace at the end of the first Cylon War should have ended the hatred the Cylons had for Man. The Cylons fought for their freedom, and they won. They should have let it go at that point, but they did not. Then again if they had done that we would have had no show and that would not have been very fun would it? :)
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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  4. USS Avenger

    USS Avenger Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  5. Jon1701

    Jon1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting, but largely pointless.

    Some interesting character stuff (I particulary enjoyed the fleshing out of Simon), but the episode just felt like a footnote. A story, that if they really wanted to tell - they could have done within the last season.

    Average. A high average, but average nonetheless.
     
  6. Bacl

    Bacl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wish they'd been able to get Xena to show up. It just feels weird to do a film about all the cylons, and then they can't have all the cylons in it.
     
  7. WeAreTheBorg

    WeAreTheBorg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They managed to make it work. The only scene where all the Cylons were together in a room they stuck in an archive shot of her, the rest of the time there was no reason she had to be shown.

    Certainly more plausible than Downloaded or some early S3 episodes on the base ships where models were just not there for no apparent reason.
     
  8. I just saw it. It was interesting but they jumped through a lot of hoops.

    The Plan should have just been:

    -To breed human/Cylon hybrid babies, born of 'love'
    -Cavill also wants to find Earth

    Neat, fits the majority of the series cleanly, Cylon attacks can be "increasing the pressure" to find Earth, etc etc. They just overcomplicated the whole thing.

    Back in the 1st season I actually thought that's what it would be all about... Helo/not-yet-Athena... Boomer/Tyrol... Baltar/Six.... all human/Cylon pairings in which they attempt to create 'love', then a hybrid child. It seemed to fit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2009
  9. WeAreTheBorg

    WeAreTheBorg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's implied that that was a sort of sub-project lead by the Fours and Sixes primarily. Cavil attribues the farm as being run by "you Fours", and we get some insight into Simon's struggle with love in the fleet. One thing that is clear is that the Cylons were never all completely on the same page, and while Cavil was organizing the attacks, he wasn't their leader per se, since everything was done by vote. So the grand plan was a simple one... annihilate humanity. Beginning at that moment or even before perhaps, individual Cylons were hatching their own plans... D'Anna and "her own path" as Cavil put it, Simon and his farms, Six and her experiments with love, Leoben with his Kara/God/Destiny freakshow, and as time went on they diverged till we know how that ended in season 4.
     
  10. Surefire

    Surefire Captain Captain

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    I gave it a D (below average, but passing)

    It felt like a clip show with only a few new interesting stories.

    I would have rather them just focus on what the Cylon plan was, rather than flipping back and forth among old clips and new clips.

    It felt like TNG Shades of Grey, although not as bad.
     
  11. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    EJO had stated (I don't know how official this was) that if a lot of DVD copies of The Plan were sold, there would be a certainty that more BSG on-offs would be produced.

    Any word on how many they've sold?
     
  12. PhasersOnStun

    PhasersOnStun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Good question. I'm not sure where to look. For movies, there's a bunch of sites that talk about box office business, but for home video I'm not sure.

    I believe that the "magic number" was over $7.5m in sales. I hope it gets that many or more, because I'd love to see the nuBSG stories continue...however, I want them to be better than The Plan!
     
  13. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Someone on syfy said the first week saw 175,000 copies sold

    Now Michael Hogan said EJO had said 300k was the magic number but who knows...

    EJO is one of the biggest BSG fans out there, but he gets overly excited about things at times (especially BSG related).
     
  14. Kaijufan

    Kaijufan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    According to The Numbers they've sold just over 300,000 copies so far on DVD in the US, though it is an estimate.
     
  15. PhasersOnStun

    PhasersOnStun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the link to the site!

    I wonder if that includes blu-ray sales as well?
     
  16. Kaijufan

    Kaijufan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As far as I know those are only DVD sales.
     
  17. flux_29

    flux_29 Commodore Commodore

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    They might get more if they start selling in europe.
     
  18. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    Well then.... this sounds very promising, does it not??
     
  19. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Okay I finally got around to watching this thing. It was pretty much what I expected, adding nothing to the explanation of The Plan. It was a clusterfuck of the sort you'd hardly expect even from a reasonably competent group of humans, much less robots with their presumably superior robotic minds. If the frakkin' robots can't even figure out basic shit like, there's a big fat battleship that isn't connected to the network that you're sabotaging, then what's the point of them being robots at all?

    Cavil was petty, childish, hypocritical and insane. The rest of the (non Final Five) Cylons were naive and gullible. Why do I care enough about beings who are worthy of nothing but contempt, to want to watch a story about them? In the end only the humans and the Final Five were worthwhile characters, flawed as they may have been. The rest of them were such idiots that I can't bring myself to have a shred of sympathy or interest in their stupid, pathetic story.

    BSG represents a type of fiction that really annoys me - stories built around premises that don't deserve to see the light of day. FlashForward is another of this ilk. Okay, you're going to spend five years and millions of dollars on putting a story on screen. Why not spend five seconds making sure you have a story worth all that effort? Even worse, the story was very well executed, which means that not just money but a significant amount of talent went to waste!

    I absolutely refuse to believe that of the infinite range of possible story types, this story is the best they could come up with. Of course we all know the problem is that RDM made the inexcusable mistake of not thinking through his premise as the first step in the process, before beginning to sketch out the storylines. If he bet that he could wing it, he bet wrong.

    There were a few good elements: it was fun seeing more details about Sam and his merry band of insurgents; the "travelogue" of the colonial worlds was cool (more of than on Caprica, please); and superimposing the UNIVERSAL logo over Caprica was a nice touch.

    Regardless of my opinions of BSG, I'll still tune in for Caprica. At least that show already has a premise that is worth putting money and talent into. If they can execute Caprica's premise as well as they did BSG, we should have a pretty frakkin' great show to watch, as long as the lack of space battles and dependence on characterization and dialogue doesn't drive away the audience. It would be ironic (but unsurprising) if a show with a strong premise and great execution went down in flames while a show with a poor premise prospered just because it included shallow elements like space battles.

    Yeah, the Centurions should be so grateful to the skinjobs for treating them like cannon fodder. Bleah. :rolleyes:

    This just reminds me of something that bugged me during the latter part of the series run, when I started to suspect that there was never going to be any coherent Plan: that we really needed to see at least one Centurion presented as a real character who could represent their point of view.

    It's not impossible - if R2D2 can come across as a real "person," why can't a metal toaster? The skinjobs were dimwitted, self-serving hypocrites and I was thoroughly sick of their bullshit by the end of the show. I wanted to hear from the Centurions. They almost seem like victims in this whole mess (something I find nicely counterintuitive and intriguing.) :D All the humanoids are fighting because of the poor, victimized, massive metal killing machines.

    "Love is better than Hate/Hypocrisy/Insanity" is a good moral of the story? A tad obvious, isn't it? Why did we have to spend five years to find out something we already knew?

    For the moral of the story to have had an impact at all, Cavil and his gang would have to have been presented as something better than thoroughly, obviously, completely frakkin' wrong (and stupid to boot). A good story should present far more balanced sides.

    Alternatively, forget the morals and present the Cylons as being murderous and bent on the destruction of humans but scrap the hypocritical moralizing. Then at least they could have been decent, if shallow, villains.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  20. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, Galactica had no bullets. It's only defense was a networked fighter squadron that had already been destroyed. If Tyrol and his crew hadn't been dedicated to restoring their exhibits, the ship would've been easily destroyed. If Adama didn't think outside the box and send the museum vipers to defend this ship, it would've easily been destroyed. If Saul Tigh had gotten a slightly later start to the night and wasn't drunk enough to throw over a card table so Kara Thrace punched him, she would've been out in the new fighters and killed instead of in the brig and, thus, available to defend the ship and shoot down the raiders and nukes that none of the second stringers were good enough to take, and the ship would've easily been destroyed.

    The point is, unless you're suggesting that a robotic super-genius equals overkill, the Cylons sent exactly as much force as they needed to take out one unarmed, undefended ship. Especially since the miniseries makes it clear that there was an actual large-scale space-battle going on, presumably against the portions of the fleet that both didn't have Baltar's new software, and did have working guns. I'd like to know what the robot logic would be in sending an entire baseship to fight a sitting duck when there are battlestars that can actually shoot back in need of being destroyed.

    Also, I'm just wondering if you've ever read anything about computer science, because Cavil's plan really is quite computer-like, when you think about it. Cavil, as the final five built him, and like the centurions before him, aspired to be more than he was. Unfortunately, his ambition outstripped his self-confidence. He used his parents' approval to judge his own self-worth, and all they were saying was, "Be more human. Stop trying to kill humans. Humans are really pretty cool once you get to know them." Humans, in short, were better than Cavil. So if Cavil wanted to be better, but didn't have the stones to go in for genuine self-improvement, the easiest way to get what he wanted was to get rid of the humans, so Cavil would, in the Final Five's eyes, be best by default. Besides, humans were assholes anyway. Who'd miss 'em? Not the Final Five, that's for sure, not once they got to see all the asshole things humans do up close and personal.

    Let me put this in terms a computer would understand.
    Code:
    IF Cavil's position in list "FinalFiveLove" is not 1
    	THEN delete item 1 in list "FinalFiveLove," rerun instruction
    	ELSE do nothing
    Which was also the same though process that led the Number One prototype to destroy the Number Seven line, the reason why Cavil snapped at Ellen when she tried to embrace him in "No Exit," ("Don't tell me you love me! Not when you're going to go off with those people again the second I turn my back!"), and, for that matter, led David in A.I. to beat the hell out of his duplicate models. None of them understood that love wasn't some limited resource, where you had to make sure others got less if you wanted more, as if it were RAM in a computer, and you had to quit one program if you wanted another to be able to run better.

    Even the Caprica copy of Cavil, at the end of "The Plan" didn't realize that. He'd just figured out that destroying humanity wouldn't free up more love for the Cavils. The Final Five's love for humanity would stay right where it was, and they'd just be pissed off at the Cavils. He'd decided that their plan was futile, where it was really just wrongheaded. They could've gotten the love and approval they wanted from the Final Five, but it would've had to come from building themselves up, not tearing others down. Now, maybe if Caprica-Cavil had the chance, he would've realized the love you take is only equal to the love you make (which, I again emphasize, is a blatantly illogical idea, namely expending a resource and then ending up with more of it, which would be anathema to a computer), but Fleet-Cavil apparently had the luck of dying first and getting to decide who's story the other Ones would hear.

    Of course, the other key is that the cylons didn't think like a computer. Joe Adama and Dan Graystone commissioned a lot of thieving and murdering specifically so the first Cylon would get a holistic processor that could think like a human. Cavil may have fetishized the algorithmic, rational thought process as a form of rebellion against his human-loving parents, but not a single cylon (going all the way back to the first centurion) ever genuinely thought like anything we'd recognize as a computer. Otherwise, they would've been useless as soldiers, and constitutionally incapable of staging a revolution, designing their own spacecraft, developing a religion, or any of the other things they ever did that required an ounce of independent or creative thought.
     

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