The Pegasus

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Komack, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. Komack

    Komack Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Just watched "the Pegasus" (spelling?) for the first time in 20 years. I was bothered by Picard's decision to inform the Romulans of the cloaking technology - is it really the place of a Starship Captain to decide whether or not his superiors have made a sound/moral/correct decision in violating a treaty and developing a new technology?
     
  2. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^That way, the Romulans couldn't have said Picard was a deceptive starship commander who sneaked past them.

    As for his superiors- It was ILLEGAL. Picard did his duty, even if an admiral was telling him to keep it a secret. It wasn't up to interpretion. The law clearly forbade Federation Starships from using cloaking devices, from what we all heard on-screen. That's why Riker did the TATV crap, because it could have meant his career.
     
  3. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't seen the episode in ages, but I have to agree with Komack. It may have been illegal, but that's something that should have been sorted out internally. Unless it was to defuse an escalating situation (which may have been the case, I don't remember), then Picard shouldn't have taken it upon himself to expose matters of Federation/Starfleet policy/security to a rival power.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suppose it's possible that the treaty stipulated that such potential situations must be reported immediately by the commanding officer(s) present on the scene.
     
  5. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, the thoughts the OP had did occur me to when I first saw when it first aired about 20 years ago.

    Then I started to wonder how Starfleet would be able to explain how the Enterprise managed to turn up elsewhere after being sealed inside asteroid. The Romulans would have been able to determine that all of the data and all that the warbird recorded were real and accurate.

    They might hide it by censuring that Rommie commander and his bridge staff, but the military would still be suspicious of how the Enteprise got out of the asteroid.
     
  6. PaleMoonlight

    PaleMoonlight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Pressman etc were still doing something to mess with the treaty that allows peace between the Fed and Romulus, so Picard was acting in the best interests of the Federation's security. Didn't someone in this episode say the head of Starfleet Security or someone else really high up was in on it too? Interesting to see TNG kind of planting the seeds for the corrupt higher echelons of the Federation that DS9 would go into more detail on. Pressman's line about having "powerful friends" and Picard's reply of "you're going to need them" is a great moment, he shows integrity in the face of corruption. What a guy!
     
  7. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's an interesting observation. I always felt that way about the episode Allegiance, where Picard tells that Bolian Ensign that the plague on Cor Caroli 5 was classified a 'secret'. A "plague" is a "secret"?! Just what was that really all about? :eek:
     
  8. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nope, it never happened. :techman:
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Contrary to what the current press will tell you, it is not the duty of people to cover up their bosses' illegal and immoral activities, even if they do it in the name of security.
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I concur. Here's the actual dialogue from TATV:

    RIKER: I think I'm ready to talk to Captain Picard. I should have done it a long time ago. (hear, hear - go for it Will!)

    And here is the only relevant "The Pegasus" scene where he had a chance to talk:

    RIKER: I've said all I can. I am under direct orders from Admiral Pressman not to discuss this, sir.

    (So essentially he's ready to talk, but won't because he is under orders not to do so...:rofl:)

    So when was he ready to talk to Picard according to TATV?!?

    DATA: The asteroid's internal structure is highly unstable. Any attempt to cut through the rock could cause the entire chasm to collapse.
    RIKER: Captain, I have a suggestion. There's a piece of equipment in Admiral Pressman's quarters under guard which might get us out of here. It's a prototype for a Federation cloaking device.

    Oops...no, that was not the talk he promised in TATV, either. :lol: Sorry, can't stand retroactive continuity because of things like this.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  11. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    It would have come in handy that cloak, you could be fired upon and then it would pass through the ship. And maybe even fire back, and since the weapons leave the ship they become unphased and hit the target.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you don't mind starting a war, sure.
     
  13. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    ^ They could have just used the phasing part of the tech and left the cloak out (if possible).

    A ship could still hide inside an asteroid.

    And I think Picard telling the Romulans about it wasn't really his call. He should have let Starfleet do that through diplomatic channels.
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And I think it's possible the treaty stipulated that Picard was obligated to let them know about it at his earliest opportunity, but there's no way to know for sure since we're not privy to the text of the treaty.
     
  15. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    ^That's certainly a solid consideration. The presence of the Ent-D somewhere else afterward would have been a dead giveaway that they'd used some means to get out of the asteroid, & assuming that the Romulans were in the vicinity based on some intelligence about the Pegasus, it wouldn't take much to put it all together.

    If Picard hadn't come forward when he did, he might have risked a cover-up that could have involved mothballing the ENT-D & disbanding her crew or even putting them in hiding, to maintain the ruse that the ship had never gotten out

    But make no bones about it. Picard is a total whistleblower, and in some circles could be called treasonous, for endangering the Federation by publicly outing their misconduct to a potential enemy

    Having said that, I think he did the right thing. By not doing it, there is a risk of Starfleet becoming overtly corrupt, & Picard is consistently willing to make hard calls to safeguard it as it is meant to be. Picard is a man who takes personal responsibility for making & keeping Starfleet the way it's supposed to be. Even though he has people he's subordinate to, he sees that as a captain's duty

    Does that make him an arrogant, self-aggrandizing boyscout? Maybe. Choosing to not develop a technology that a potential enemy has been using against you is a bold & precarious principle to uphold, but clearly their leaders felt it was the lynchpin that stems the full on war between their two worlds, or perhaps kills the spirit of their purpose... To them, a cloaked Federation is not the true Federation. It's a federation consumed with fear of Romulans & Klingons & whoever else, and any hint of that ought to be ousted, like Picard did. That's how I took it anyway
     
  16. desfem79

    desfem79 Lieutenant Commander

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    hmm.. maybe i have a black and white view of it, but then any Starfleet officer is bound to uphold all treaties/agreements the Federation signs. So Picard did the right thing in that sense. and whether the Algeron treaty is bull (IMHO it is/was, if it still existed post-Dom war/2379/Nemesis), but then clearly it had wide support as there was no overall will to override it or re-negotiate it.

    It's like a US Navy CO finding that an Admiral on his ship has breached a treaty with China. Whether he personally agrees with it or not is immaterial, and I doubt that's a good defence in any court martial. No more than me driving on the motorway and 150mph and telling the judge "meh, I don't believe in speed limits". I guess as others here have said, the Algeron Treaty could have stipulated this, but by the letter of the law Picard did the right thing.
     
  17. desfem79

    desfem79 Lieutenant Commander

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    Didn't Will tell Picard on the bridge? lol..

    I think the Enterprise ep scene probably took place between them being in the asteroid and them exiting. i guess he and Deanna had to kill time whilst being in there lol..:cool:
     
  18. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am seeing an allegory between Edward Snowden and Picard here.
     
  19. jibrilmudo

    jibrilmudo Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    This episode from s7 comes after s5 The First Duty where Wesley got the whole "The First Duty" speech from Picard for his part in the Coverup for the attempted Kolvoord Starburst manuever and subsequent death of their teammate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W0ff2Xns5g

    "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform!"

    Notice that Picard didn't merely tell the Romulans and then let things play out, he placed Admiral Pressman (and Commander Riker) under arrest at the end for violating the Treaty of Algeron.

    I do find it confusing that Riker got a much lighter punishment in his role of this as Ensign than Wesley as cadet although both circumstances were pretty much the same (pressured by a higher up, a lowly cog in the chain, covering up what happened to a board of inquiry, and finally fessing to it under pressure). Picard was also more lenient to Riker personally than he was to Wesley. More people died with the Pegasus than the Academy incident.
     
  20. Vandervecken

    Vandervecken Captain Captain

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    I agree x 2. This is far more than a "cloak"; I frankly don't understand why this was covered under the treaty with the Romulans. I'm guessing, though, that it's not possible to divorce the phasing from the invisibility to eyes and sensors.

    And Picard had even less right to make this call than he did to NOT make a strike against the Borg with that topological computer virus Data created for Hugh to carry, and that got Picard his ass chewed (always thought that one should have gotten him tarred and feathered, considering how many lives that decision might have cost at the New Providence colony and at Wolf 359).

    THIS call was way above his paygrade. In fact, this should have been a Federation Council call, NOT a Starfleet call.