The Orb - a new DS9 podcast

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Enterpriserules, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Haven't actually had chance to listen to this one yet, but I'm jus popping by to say that Kira was always my favourite character right from the start, and largely because of Nana's performance. Just the way she says "Hello..." to Sisko in her first scene had me grinning right from the start.

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  2. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    The more I watch the show the more I love Kira, she has so many levels that I discover anew every time I rewatch the show.
     
  3. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Is there no new podcast this week? I miss my Orb fix. Of course I appreciate what you guys have done, so if there is no show this week I can understand that.

    I was thinking this week you guys would do O'Brien. I just watched Whispers and Armageddon Game earlier this week and and started wondering what kind of things you guys will touch on with Miles. I would say him as a family man, him who has the worst luck of all the characters (Not just the torture episodes, but an episode like The Forsaken where the computer treats him as more of an owner to a pet), and how easily people can relate to him. I'm glad he was a carry over from TNG because O'Brien was a great character. Actually I wonder, would it have been nice to see Ben Maxwell again on DS9? Considering the Cardassian situation throughout the entire series, I wonder if that was ever considered.
     
  4. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    We did need to take a week off because of life issues, but we will be back next week and you called it, Miles is who we will be talking about!
     
  5. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location? What is this?
    I was checking trek.fm several times a day, too. Thanks for the heads-up. Great to hear the podcast will continue! Hope all is well with you guys.
     
  6. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks y'all! It happens every once in a while, I'm sorry for the delay! Yes, we will be continuing, The Orb is definitely a passion for Chris and I.
     
  7. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    The latest episode about Miles is now up!
     
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I'll write more about this episode later, but what was the episode where Obrien know how to speak Trill? I don't remember that at all.

    Also, just curious how do you and Chris prepare for the show? I remember listening to a Trek Podcast where the hosts were making mistakes about what an episode was or when something happened. I know it's hard to remember everything about all series (Hell, because it's my least watched series, I couldn't tell you what 2/3rds of Star Trek were about) but when it comes to DS9, you guys come across as geniuses. I know you guys are dedicated to the series and that's awesome, but you guys can't remember everything that's happened in the series with each specific character without having doing some prep work. If you do, I'm more impressed. The detail you guys put into the show really is stunning.
     
  9. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    In "Prodigal Daughter" O'Brien is reading Trill with Ezri at her family home, so he can at least read it.

    So for prep, we research a lot, so it does take time. Places like Memory Alpha, DS9 Companion and ST.com are invaluable. We have both watched the entire series a few times, but there is still more I've forgotten than remember! :)
     
  10. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I said I would write something on the O'Brian show so here are a few thoughts. As usual, good episode, and it's interesting that you brought up his musical accomplishments, and I watched Shadowplay tonight, and he talks all about it. I really liked O'Brian, and not just because he was the everyman. Colm Meany brought a certain charm to the character and it's understated and subtle that I like him for much more different reasons than say Garek or Ben Sisko. I also agree that he was one of the most unluckiest characters in trek.

    One thing I took issue with though is your comparison of Kim dying to OBrian dying. Granted, this is the DS9 forum so I'm not sure how popular this opinion is, but I actually liked Kim's scene better than O'Brians, even though I like Visionary too. The thing is with O'Brian being pretty much our O'Brian just a few hours later, O'Brian didn't really die per say. With Kim, we got the same Kim, only duplicated. It worked on Farscape with the two Crichtons (Sorry for the spoilers) and I thought it worked for Voyager too.

    Despite that though, good episode, as always. I think you only have two more episodes dealing with the main cast, Jake and Ezri. Hopefully you dedicate some episodes to some characters in the supporting cast. These characters deserve their own episodes, in my opinon:

    Martok
    Gul Dukat
    Garek
    Kai Winn

    That's another month's worth of episodes at least. Looking forward to seeing what other themes you will cover once the characters are done.
     
  11. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Garak is coming up and we have a special guest for that too! So stay tuned!
     
  12. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

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    Been catching up and hopefully soon I will put together a more detailed collection of thoughts of the last four podcasts. But for now, regarding the Kira podcaast, I think it is okay to see her as a terrorist. By the very definition of the word that is what she was. Of course she was on the side of righteousness and was a freedom fighter against an invading, all powerful occupier. Nevertheless she did willing take part of actions that were designed to harm the bad guys/Cardassians even if innocent individuals were killed in the process. That is a terrorist.

    I don't think we should shy away from that word simply because of 9-11. In fact one of the things that makes DS9 stand out is that a main character and the second in command on the station was a terrorist. Let us not sugarcoat this. I doubt any TV show can get away with that today.
     
  13. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Those are some good points, thank you for listening!
     
  14. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    The newest Orb is out with special guest Una McCormack!
     
  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Just started listening to it now. :techman:
     
  16. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Can't wait to hear what you think!
     
  17. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That got kinda intense there, didn't it? :eek:

    You were basically verbalising arguments I've had in my own head for many years. I feel like the discussion lost the connection to Star Trek a couple of times when the subject matter ranged more widely and you got into more general real-world issues. But I guess that's a good thing - that you can get so much to discuss out of only a single episode of the show. I'm just not sure anyone coming in half way through would even realise it was a Star Trek podcast!

    For myself, I'm definitely not religious. I've said before that viewing DS9 and writing my own DS9-related stuff has helped me to at least look at other perspectives than my own. But we all come to this issue through the prism of our own experiences.

    For me, I was nominally raised CofE, but only at a very basic level - church was Christmas and Easter only. Even that I refused to do any longer after about 12 or so, because I saw no value or point in it, and to continue to go when I didn't actually believe in any of the stuff they were saying would just be hypocritical. And since then I've lead a pretty much religion-free life, at least day-to-day.

    But as I've grown up, I've become more aware of the effect religion has on the wider world, and frankly it's difficult sometimes not to see only the negative. Church of England is generally not a very extreme religion. There's a great Eddie Izzard piece where he points out how it's kind of impossible to be a Church of England fundamentalist ("You must have tea and cake with the vicar or you die!"), so I don't feel like I've suffered much there. But looking at the hatred that one sees coming out of some of the larger organised religions - Catholic, Southern Baptist, Mormon, Islam and others - it's kind of tough to remain sanguine.

    Given who I am, the prism I'm currently looking at all this through is the equal marriage debate raging across America right now. So many people using religious arguments to justify blatant discrimination against me and my kind, not just in the US but all over the world. And it's the same arguments they used against racial desegregation or women getting the vote.

    I try to remember that far from all religious people are hateful of others, that the vast majority are perfectly ordinary, nice, normal people who just have a faith - your Kiras and Bareils and Shakaars. But it's the hateful ones who make all the noise and get all the attention, and they're trying to write their bigotry into law under the guise of "God", when a) the Bible doesn't actually say anything like what they're claiming it does, and b) even if it did, religion has no place in civil law anyway.

    This is one of the most hilarious examples I've found - http://technoccult.net/archives/2009/10/23/why-is-this-anti-gay-leviticus-tattoo-extra-absurd/ It's a tattoo someone got quoting Leviticus' anti-gay chapter to prove just how much they hate the gays... while completely ignoring the fact that Leviticus also bans tattoos. Just goes to show how people utilize religion to justify their own hatred of others, even when it's completely irrational.

    You say both sides have their extremists, and I can't deny that. There are raging religion-haters just as much as there are crazy whackjob fundies. I try not to be one of them - I try to remain moderate and rational on my side just as you do on yours. But it's tough sometimes.

    You also say that both sides look down on the others and think they're superior, and there I'm not so sure I agree. From my perspective, it looks like the religious people are actively going out of their way to persecute and discriminate against us. Whereas we, on the other hand, would be perfectly content to go about our own business and not bother anybody else if only they would leave us alone. But since they refuse to do that, we have to fight back. Maybe that's comparing extremists on their side to moderates on mine, but I feel like there wouldn't be any extremists on our side if there didn't need to be to counter the extremists on theirs. Basically, it boils down to "they started it."

    If it really is just the loudmouths who are anti-gay and the moderates are actually perfectly fine with it or just don't care one way or the other, then I really wish those moderates would speak up louder and make it clear that the loudmouths don't speak for everyone. That seems to be happening gradually.

    Here's another great thread that gives me hope. http://www.pantagraph.com/news/opin...cle_2da36280-98d9-11e2-ab2e-0019bb2963f4.html Some woman wrote into an online newspaper claiming that "gay marriage threatens my religious freedom." Out of nearly 100 comments, almost every one is telling her how full of crap she is - most in a respectful way, trying to explain how every point she made is incorrect and why. People are shouting down the fundies. It is getting better, to coin a phrase.

    But it's not until the fundie whackjob types are removed from their undeserved positions of influence that society at large will have more respect for religion in general. I think more people would be open to a spiritual life - perhaps even me - if they didn't find the religious establishment so restrictive and draconian and anti-anything-that-isn't-straight-white-male.

    As I say, I recognize that you do not appear to be that kind of person, Matthew, and I am glad for it. This is not a rant against you personally, and I hope you don't take it as such. I'm just trying to explain some of the reasons that I see why people may be against religion, and it's not just over a different worldview, but rather because religion is used against them.

    All of which proves I can go off topic way more than you can. :techman:

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  18. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    lvsxy808 I think the only thing that I can say is that no one likes to be told that they are wrong, humans hate that, I hate that. For me, I believe in God and he that created the world and because of that I trust that the creator knows what's best. It might sound simplistic, but if he says there is a best way, I want to follow that way. The worldview foundation for me is this; there is a God and that I can know who he is and what he thinks is best. With that as my foundation, it shapes everything else.

    Living out these beliefs does not make me superior or better than anyone. I don't always follow my beliefs well, I'm human, but I strive to live them out in a way that is consistent, so that means my fundamental presupposition about the world and God will shape every other belief I have. In all, I do firmly believe the clash is one of worldviews because what we believe about God, whether we believe in one or not, shapes everything else. Since therefore I believe in a personal, relational, creator God who loves us, then that will make my worldview quite different from one who believes in "something" or no god at all.

    I am called to live out what I believe and I try to do so with love and respect for others, no one was ever won over by hate. I am glad you do not think I am a hater, I strive not to be. I am glad that God does not require my perfection because if he did, I'd never be able to make it. I'm so glad God gives grace and because of that grace I want to extend grace to others. Thanks for sharing your views with me. We may not agree, but there is nothing but respect from me.
     
  19. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh absolutely, I have no hard feelings here at all. I'm not trying to attack you.

    Not be perfectly frank in an unflattering manner, when I first learned that you were a person of faith, my kneejerk reaction was negative. But that is down to the experiences I mentioned above - with other people - and reflects only on me, not on you. At no point either on the boards or on the podcasts have you ever come across as one of those type of people, and so it has been proven to me that my kneejerk assumption was wrong. In fact I wish a lot more religious people had your outlook on life, instead of trying to impose their outlook on me.

    To bring it back to some semblance of topic, DS9 does as you say bring that understanding into the franchise - that science and religion do not necessarily have to be inconsistent with one another. I do believe the aphorism that science and religion are just different ways of explaining the same things. I just personally fall on one side of the line while you fall on the other. As long as we can all respect that the other side is valid, we'll all be good. The problem comes when people do not accept that the other side is valid.

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  20. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    I like your last point. As a person of faith I am very excited to see what scientific discoveries will be made about our world. So, to me, science and faith are both part of understanding the whole. Since I believe in God I don't believe in a dualism as if they are on opposite sides. God made the world and science is one of the tools we have to understand that creation and faith in God informs and motivates my curiosity.