Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by CrazyMatt, Feb 27, 2013.
She's an extra. Extras generally don't get their names recorded for posterity.
But... Victoria Vetri, aka Angela Dorian (An.Dorian?) did got into space with NASA astronauts!
Wow. I love finding out new things about space exploration history.
We're off the subject ... again.
Someone will figure out who that young lady is. And, showing my sexist side, she really is quite attractive.
I don't think they will. Again, she was an extra. She had no lines, and was just there to fill out the group. Extras' names usually don't get recorded for posterity. That's why we still don't know who really played Isis.
And I don't think there's anything sexist about finding someone attractive. It's a natural part of human interaction. It's only sexist if you ignore the rest of their attributes.
You can't call Isis an extra, to say nothing of being "just there to fill out the group." This was not a crowd scene. She has a character name, she gets a close-up and a medium shot just of her, a smashing costume unique to her, and she plays a scene with Teri Garr. She's just a tiny step below the unfortunate cabaret dancer in "Wolf in the Fold," in that she got no lines. They'd have to pay her more if she spoke.
If only they'd listed her in the credits!
The Isis character is what's commonly known as a "non-speaking part", not an extra per se.
FWIW, the way a film crew works, the Director typically directs the actors and the 1st A.D. gives direction to the "background" (read extras).
So what about this female Scalosian, was she an extra or was hers really a non-speaking part?
Consider Compton's death scene, transcribed by http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/68.htm:
TrekCore images of those moments are at http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=77&page=21.
This female Scalosian moves forward out of concern for having lost Compton, and she is then directly addressed by Rael. So, extra or non-speaking part?
That's a non-speaking role; she's part of the story. It's unnatural to have her be silent, but it was a money-saving thing they had to do. More speaking parts would mean less money for other aspects of the show.
She made a nodding/acknowledging expression to Rael, so maybe, beside cost savings, they thought that was sufficient. Not everyone can reply verbally, and maybe she wasn't of high enough rank to speak to Rael in their society. (even if it was only five people.)
What about Isis and Sylvia? I think they were the same animal actor, in cat form.
When an extra has specific movements--but no lines--they are known as "special business extras" and get paid a little more.
They are TWO actors in TOS who had speaking lines that are TRULY unknown..................
The guard at the gangsters door in "Piece of.." who replies to the the other guard's remark, "Cute kid."
He replies,--"Sure is."
The other is the morg guard in "Spock's brain", who says,--"Yes mistress." in reply to Kara(?) telling him to watch Kirk and co.
If you guys know who these two might be--I'll really appreciate the help!
They are the last 2 of the 'onscreen speaking parts' (out of exactly 400) that I have charted.
I obviously count 'Gem' as an actor and not an extra because she is clearly the focal point of the story and could never be seen as an extra.
Kathryn Hays was not an extra because she was credited and paid as the episode's featured guest star. It said "Guest Star Kathryn Hays as Gem" right there on the screen. Nobody who gets onscreen billing is an extra, by definition.
Yes obviously she was billed--i think we've all seen the episode.
I was simply stating that I had counted 399 speaking parts and 1 non-speaking part that OBVIOUSLY was an actor.
For my own count I DON'T count the guy who played Kloog who WAS billed, because clearly he was a stunt guy with no lines.
I think the rule was, a stunt guy who doubles for another actor during a fight or whatever DOES NOT get credit, BUT if he plays the person thruout the episode and is NOT replaced during the fight he sometimes gets billed.
At any rate, my personal list has all 399 speaking parts and Hays counted.
Really want those last two names!
But thanks for pointing that out.
But since he was billed, then no, he was not an extra. "Extra" is not a matter of opinion. It's a professional job title with a formal definition, and it's dictated by the contract you sign and your professional standing. Someone who is contracted as an extra is an extra; someone who is contracted as an actor is an actor, even without lines. (And the SAG has a separate category for Background Performers.)
Perhaps the difference is that both Gem and Kloog were named characters who had significant interaction with other characters, even if they didn't speak. That put them in a different category from some anonymous Morg who jumps on Kirk's back or some yeoman serving coffee in the background. It may also be a function of duration -- how much screen time and attention the performer gets, even without dialogue. I've seen other instances where a performer with no lines was still credited because of the featured nature of their role. For instance, Carel Struycken as Lurch in the Addams Family movies.
There can also be instances where someone is cast in a speaking part but all their lines are cut out. In that case, they still get the same billing and payment they were contracted for. Heck, there's a West Wing episode that bills Armin Shimerman prominently in the guest credits even though he was cut out of the episode completely.
But Mickey Morton (Kloog) is not a stuntman, but an actor. He has dozens of acting credits on IMDb both before and after "Triskelion," and no stunt performer credits. (Hey, he played Chewbacca's wife in The Star Wars Holiday Special!) Sure, he was generally cast as big, thuggish guys or creatures, often without dialogue, but he wasn't a stuntman. I guess you'd call him a bit player.
Who cares about all that BS?
I simply stated that I have made a count of speaking parts on TOS and it comes to 399. I don't care about Mickey Morton's credits and all that criteria. They also list the guy who hit the rock against the shuttle in "Galileo..".
He may have played Hamlet on broadway, but in TOS, he was a big guy holding a styrofoam rock.
Who needs a lecture on hollywood's official rules for billing?
I am interested in actors with speaking parts. It's a free country, anybody can have their own parameters for their hobbies.
I'm not trying to change your or Hollywood's minds about the subject.
I suppose our best hope, in these days of the internet, is that some of these extras (or their families) decide to post photos of their glory days on Facebook or their personal websites or something.
"Here's a photo of mom from when she played a bit part on STAR TREK years ago. Wasn't she a looker?"
Not sure how you search for that, though.
A reverse image search engine, such as http://www.tineye.com/, could be effective in solving a problem like this. However, such a tool is only as good as its algorithms, its server resources, how wide a net it casts with its crawls, and how frequently its database is updated.
For the image http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5219/whoisshe.png in the OP, TinEye gets zero hits, and it claims to have searched over 2.4709 billion images.
In contrast, for the image http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090206233131/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/7/7e/Deela_dodges_a_phaser_beam.jpg/292px-Deela_dodges_a_phaser_beam.jpg at the top of Memory Alpha's page of Wink of an Eye, TinEye gets 13 hits, including a hit on the Memory Alpha page.
From scrolling through those results, you can see that not all the images found are precisely identical. That's the usefulness of a reverse image search: it can locate similar images rather than only just identical images.
That indicates that further searches might be more successful, if the image of the Scalosian female is adjusted.
I'll try two more, using the images on http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unnamed_Scalosians:
For the image http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090206225441/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/c/c5/Female_Scalosian.jpg/150px-Female_Scalosian.jpg, there are zero hits.
For the image http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090206230104/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/a/ac/Male_Scalosian.jpg/150px-Male_Scalosian.jpg, there are zero hits.
I started with the images actually on the pages, since they would be encountered first in a breadth-first crawl. I also tried the larger versions of the image you get by clicking on them, but still zero hits and zero hits.
Still, someone who's persistent could stumble across the right image in the right search engine and get lucky, and wind up on the sort of Facebook page that Greg Cox suggested.
I'm sad for you that you're so hostile to new information. But this is not a private conversation between the two of us. This is a public board and this thread may be read by hundreds of people, some of whom may very well be interested in that information.
I've wondered why that doesn't happen more often. They have to have someone in their family who is a fan and would like to get that info out. i would.
Little known tidbits like actors who sign a contract, show up for work, say their lines--STILL GET PAID FOR THE WORK EVEN IF THEIR PART IS CUT!!!!
Wow, thanks for clearing that up for all us morons on this board.
When you give us the first information I don't already know---then I'd be grateful.
And by the way, in reality Mickey Morton was neither a stuntman or an 'actor'--he was a 'stunt actor'.
That is a person who will sometimes have no lines but is hired for his presence (in his case--big) and fighting skill and sometimes has lines and also does some sort of physicality.
Perfect example is Paul Baxley who doubled for the stars many, many times in fights and had no lines and got no billing and other times had a few lines and got into some fighting (Freeman in 'Trouble..", 'Patrol Leader' in "Private...', Security guard in "Assignment.." and soldier in "Patterns..") and GOT billing.
In all those cases he had a few or so lines and also did his usual stunt work.
My interest is actors who had lines on air, regardless if they got billing or not. Many actors on TOS had lines and got no billing---that doesn't mean they didn't act and I could give a fig for an actor who got billing and their part was never seen on air.
Separate names with a comma.