The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Forbin, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    sisko's hair situation is totally stolen from garibaldi
     
  2. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    :lol:

    I'm envious of the Chase Masterson flirting. Suzy Plakson did that with me at a Creation Con in NJ, and I almost hyperventilated. :)

    Good point about the DS9 anniversary being all but forgotten. I've been rewatching it lately (just finished S5), and apart from the unbearable Ferengi comedy episodes, it still holds up as a great show.
     
  3. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was waiting for someone to say that.

    Another thing people aren't mentioning (it may be later in the thread) is the serial nature of the DS9 story. Trek was really a bottle-type of show where the universe was largely the same after as before. B5 was designed with one long "arc". Some episodes could stand alone and had little "arc" material, but those tended to be the weakest. The innovation, the "draw" of B5 was the "arc" and that is what DS9 started to do more and more as the series went on, where you really had to tune in each week to follow what was happening. So my feeling is that DS9 saw how B5 was earning, if not ratings, at least critical praise for the "arc" and how it made B5 feel "epic" and decided to make the serial story format more prominent.

    And sure enough, later on serial-type stories like Lost, Battlestar Remake, etc... are the standard rather than the exception with A-list 1-hour dramas.
     
  4. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    As many similarities as there are between the two shows, I'd wager that after the development of the pilot the DS9 writers had absolutely no knowledge of anything concerning B5.

    I think there's bound to be some similar moves in the story by sheer coincidence, like both shows getting a tiny powerful warship in the third season premiere.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The trend for serialized A-list drama begins in the 80s with shows like Hill Street Blues, St Elsewhere and LA Law. It was a trend that Star Trek was already behind on. I think those shows had a bigger impact on the people behind DS9 going for serialized story telling than B5 did.
     
  6. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    Hold on ... didn't Dukhat come later in B5? I thought he was retconned into B5 early history in the movie In The Beginning.
     
  7. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know that we think of it has a "bottle" show now, but at the time TNG was heavily praised for showing character development and referencing details from previous episodes, like Picard's flute or Worf's relationship with the Klingon empire.

    DS9 and Voyager to a lesser extent, just pushed the envelope a little farther.
     
  8. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    Not at all. He was mentioned as early as 'Soul Hunter', episode 102, and again in several other episodes (A Voice in the Wilderness, A Late Delivery from Avalon, Severed Dreams, Babylon Squared and Atonement).

    Jan
     
  9. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    That is one drawback for DS9 and all of the other Star Trek spinoffs. Their identity is somewhat subsumed within the overall franchise. So when we have a 40th anniversary or 50th anniversary for Star Trek as a whole, the spinoffs get some recognition as part of that, but rarely as their own independent entities, separate from the rest of the franchise.
     
  10. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    True, though because of the 1 year delay in the production for B5 Season 1, "Soul Hunter" wasn't produced until well after the character Dukat appeared in DS9's premiere.
     
  11. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    So much so that rather than wait for The Next Generation to finish they came out two years early.

    Just in case Babylon 5 was any good.

    :)

    (I personally don't care about the scenario, I'm just sayin'..)
     
  12. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Eh, that's not so unusual for spinoffs. See: Angel, Xena, Torchwood, various procedurals for example.




    This is such a dumb "feud."
     
  13. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure Dukhat was part of the original proposal of B5 so he was created in the mid 80s.
     
  14. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But in DS9, he was really only called Dukat to avoid paying royalties for using a previously used gul names.
     
  15. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, jms freely admits that as his main inspiration. LotR and, I think, Arthurian legend. Or was it Greek mythology
     
  16. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This. DS9 is my favourite Trek and JMS's effort to turn television in to a more literary medium was astonishing. Both are 2 of the best TV shows anybody could watch and the world is richer for both being around.

    Better 2 complex, thoughtful shows about space-stations than a million reality shows about singing aimed at morons.
     
  17. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You know, I've never read the Lord of the Rings series, but with all the comparisons to B5, a sci-fi universe I love second only to Star Trek, you guys are making a VERY convincing argument in it's favor.
     
  18. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, you should read LOTR anyway as it's an amazing read (Also check out The Silmarillion!) but people aren't exaggerating when they say B5 took a lot from it.

    Started an S1 rewatch of B5 earlier. Michael O'Hare has such a wonderful voice for a science-fiction saga. Miss that guy a lot.
     
  19. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    Lord of the Rings is just one of many influences on Babylon 5. I would bet that Joe has read and watched more stories than a majority of the audience watching the show. There's a lot more to discover than Tolkien in there. Even in B5's original conception notes (http://www.cafepress.com/b5books/6587738) he also mentions Foundation, Lensman, Dune, as well as several movies.
     
  20. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Anybody that writes a large scale sci-fi which which doesn't take influence from Dune is doing something wrong. That book sparked my imagination in a few few have.