The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by jefferiestubes8, May 14, 2011.

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  1. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    I wouldn't call TNG 'cheaper' by any stretch. At approx 1 million per episode, it boasted a very high budget esp. for a syndicated sci-fi show.
     
  2. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    How about "unrefined"?
     
  3. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, but I simply don't see it.

    I mean what the hell. It looks like a very complex and organic model to me. All the details that finally spring out. It's actually transparent and glows from the inside. Holy cow. Certainly not ropes glued on some plates. Not at all.
     
  4. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Well, the scene where their tendrils touch is a little..."unrefined". That in particular looks like puppetry, but overall the models hold up well.
     
  5. I Grok Spock

    I Grok Spock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think the models aren't detailed or skillfully built. It's just that having such a clear image (and what seems to be a dialing-down of the glow effect) makes them look very small and model-y in some shots. Especially the tentacle-bump.
     
  6. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Let me be clear. I said budget and technology is what held back early TNG. Sure, it was expensive, but that doesn't mean all that money went into visuals for the show. For a pilot, they had to build everything from scratch (except the corridors. I know. Don't piss on me for that). The bridge set is mostly there, but a few finishing touches aren't applied until season 2. Now, season 2 is a whole other ball game thanks to the behind the scenes problems of creative bullshit (the writers really had free reign to go nuts for most of the season) and the writers strike (Shades of Grey. 'nuff said). But thats neither here nor there when it comes to visuals.

    Now, those Farpoint aliens? Always looked a little goofy, but the fuzzy glow around the SD versions gave them some substance which I feel the HD version has taken away, making the tendrils far more spindly and rope like than they initially did. This is one issue. Overall I'm jumping for joy at TNG-HD and everything else I've seen looks fantastic. The Enterprise herself is a thing of beauty. The fact is though, the Farpoint aliens are first spaceship/alien of the week that were never seen again. Of course they didn't have the same level of polish applied to them.

    Now, is that a budget/technology issue? Perhaps, but It's probably more of a time issue come to think of it. Thats why we got shots like this: http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x01/farpoint1_035.jpg in the pilot, which are blatantly a single shot of the model with the incorrect glows painted on afterward as opposed to the usual multi-pass composite. EaF is rife with stuff like this. Ok, sure, it got better during the first and second seasons, but I maintain the show didn't find its footing (visually) until season 3. Episodes like Conspiracy and Q, Who? really do help to debunk my argument mind you, but they still look rough around the edges vs the later seasons. The HD process will do a lot to remedy this, but the weird lighting of season 1 and 2 will not be fixed, it may be tempered somewhat, but it won't match the style the show maintained from season 3 onward thanks to the way in which it was made. Which is probably a combination of budget, technology, time and lets face it, stylistic choices.

    Or as The Festivus Toad (Squiggy?) aptly pointed out better than I could - simply "unrefined".
     
  7. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Off topic, but the recent trailer reminded me of just how great and magical the musical scores were in the first season. Not sure what happened in later seasons. Does anyone know if there was a change in composers?
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    When Robert Justman left after season one, it left Rick Berman in charge of the music for the show. Justman liked lush, melodramatic scores while Berman preferred "sonic wallpaper," as it has been described. This led to Ron Jones being fired during the fourth season, and Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway writing less thematic music as time went on.
     
  9. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    What a shame that that happened. I didn't care a whole lot for the music in the later seasons.
    I guess that's one more thing to blame Rick Berman for. :klingon:
     
  10. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Shocking number of comments (on EW and Face****) complaining the FX look crappy and that the picture is barely any improvement. They also want new CGI effects, which 9 times out of 10 will look worse than the newly composited effects!

    I can only assume these people have bad eyesight? The improvement in image quality and VFX is like going from black and white to colour, which is what we knew would happen all along because we are going from analog betamax masters to 1080p scanned from 35mm film...

    Thank goodness CBS don't listen to the masses!
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This!
     
  12. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    OTOH the current CBS policy of releasing samples with low bitrate flash video does not help their cause. They would get better feedback if they released some 1440 x 1080 uncompessed bmp or tga files vs screencaps from the DVDs. THAT would silence some of the bad-eyesight people ;)
     
  13. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    ^Totally. It's hard to promote a product properly when you're not getting to see a true representation of the finished product.
     
  14. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some people are also complaining that the aspect ratio is 4:3 rather than 16:9. A minority of those people also appear to believe that the series was originally framed for widescreen. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    I would just like to say...I take back most of what I said. I just watched The Last Outpost, and I must say....that should look pretty great in HD. I can't fault that episode for any visual reason.
     
  16. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You know what? If this project was in any way funded by JJtrek, I have no issues with that film anymore.

    This is beyond anything I could have imagined. If the set runs into three or four figures, I'm taking out a loan.
     
  17. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Four figures? I'd hope the entire 7 season run doesn't even reach that :p
     
  18. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I meant to say the entire 7 year run being four figures. Whoops.
     
  19. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Don't forget something like 11010011 with the Bynars. It would've been such a shame to lose movie quality FX for new and inferior CGI! They would have needed to spend a LOT of money on CGI to come close to replicating the spacedock and even then they would still look worse. Could you imagine a CGI update for Search for Spock? Because thats what they would be asked to do on a shoestring budget. A lot of the ship models where built for the movies anyway and they will look excellent in HD.
     
  20. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I never advocated CG. I simply said the problems with the early season were more ingrained and simply a clearer picture couldnt help them. I was wrong in that regard :p
     
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