Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by RAMA, Jan 28, 2012.
Let's go with torches to CBS and find out what happened!!
Ahem, this is purely a joke...
I was watching both the DVD and Blu-Ray at the same time for all three episodes and the problem was at the same amount for all three episodes. But it would be nice if CBS just did a widescreen version or just used the entire negative with no cropping (it's not like this would be the first time in Trek history where people saw revealing moments after the original release).
But, on another board I noticed someone asking whether the 7.1 audio is a 5.1 matrixed. I don't think that occurred since the 5.1 seems to have been matrixed from the 2.0 stereo master and some of the audio seems a little muddied and distorted when compared to the 7.1 audio. Of course I was listening to the sound track on a surround system that only outputs Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 (with the ability to matrix a 6th rear center channel) and PCM 2.0, but the Blu-Ray audio still sounded crisper and more separated than the ZDVD audio. So I think CBS most likely did a proper 7.1 mix.
Maybe the remaster team is just trying to punish us for being difficult. Some of us argued vociferously in favor of the original aspect ratio, against the top and bottom being cropped; others argued in favor of a widescreen version. The remaster team found a way to do it where neither side gets what they want.
^ That would almost be worth it .
Edit: They should ship an episode in 9:16!
Did you mean 16:9? 9:16 would be a very narrow and long picture.
That was the joke, see the preceding post by Hober Mallow for context.
By problem, you mean the cropping was the same amount on all three? Hmm. That certainly runs directly counter to what I'm seeing. Are you viewing them both on displays that have a 1:1 mode -- that is, no overscan? I understand if you mean that while watching one or the other you don't see a huge difference (because there isn't)... but unless you're stopping both at the same moment and examining them closely or taking screengrabs, how can you be sure?
Of the three, "Sins" definitely has the re-framing issue. Again, what I'm seeing is that all the non-VFX shots are showing about 85% of what the DVD shows. "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Inner Light" generally give us a bit more, around 100-102% or so.
Hopefully when TrekCore gets around to doing full galleries of "Sins" and "Inner Light" we can all check for certain... but you can compare "Farpoint" right now if you haven't already:
My LCD doesn't have overscan, and I was starting the two different versions at the same time and pausing them at The same time. I was using both a PS3 and Sony DVD-Recorder both hooked up by HDMI. All three had the framing issues.
But I really wish that CBS would release the Blu-Ray in widescreen.
It would've been interesting if they had put an episode in 16:9 on the sampler disc to judge reactions. Though the internet might have exploded if they had.
All three are going to have slight framing differences of some sort because they are new scans of the negative on new equipment and the old tape masters have a slightly warped geometry to them. The new equipment is better, just as you'd expect. But with "Sins" we're talking about something else... it definitely has a unique level of cropping compared to the other two.
They have framing 'differences' due to the new scan, but the other two episodes are nothing like Sin's of the Father, that one is cropped much smaller...whereas the other two episodes generally show a bit more than the old DVD scan.
As for 16x9...I'm glad they're going with 4x3 first...16x9 would be a completely separate project considering it would take some careful adjustments to frame everything properly.
I don't understand the argument for making the show 16x9 for the Blu-Ray wouldn't doing that be for the same, stupid, reasons that brought us "full-screen" DVDs?
The show was filmed in 4x3, it was originally broadcast in 4x3 it should be presented in that format. Want it to fill the screen either to wear your TV evenly or because the "fill-in color" on your TV can be distracting? Then stretch the picture. Don't like the distortion? Deal with it.
Making it 16x9 would not work it'd very likely expose elements of production we're not meant to see or it'd just plain ruin the framing of shots which could have an impact on the scenes themselves.
Yeah, I watched the Next Level in 4x3 because on the BD the unused portions were black so I didn't find it any more distracting than when I watch a movie that's not 16x9 on my TV. Yeah, I'm slightly worried about un-even wear but I suspect in the long-run I'll be fine, I tried using "stretch" and such but the one that does it best wasn't available through the Blu-Ray (the setting that stretches the edges more than the center.)
Still, watch it in 4x3 and you'll be fine. I'd much rather have that then the mess that'd likely come from making the show 16x9.
Yeah, while i understand the desire to have the image fill a modern 16x9 screen, it just doesn't and wasn't created to.
I'm sorry for evidently rebooting the 16:9 sub-discussion . Let me point out I've poked fun and moaned at the "It should really be 16:9" faction on earlier pages, and the 9:16 jab was just more of the same.
I have no problem with it being 4:3 as it originally was presented and in fact prefer it being available in that manner yet I still think it'd be interesting to see it otherwise. I remember posting a homemade clip here a long time back where I tried to crop it such that was not very will received.
I'd just like to pojnt out, while I agree completely with you and I like the fact its preserving how it was originally, with the sampler set at least you cannot stretch the image with your TV. Because they "hard coded" in the two black bars onto the video as opposed to just presenting the video in 4:3, the TV see's it as a 16:9 image and won't stretch it beyond that.
I've tried it on 3 seperate TVs so far (2 Samsung, 1 LG) and they all had the same issue. Even on my PC, It stretches the black bars too.
Well, the latter is a question of what player you use. The better players let you do things like auto-crop the black bars before applying any other scaling, or just manually key in the aspect ratio and/or zoom factor.
That's okay, it's at least more interesting than the framing discussion of the last 4 pages.
I'll have to go back and look at it but I can use the "zoom" option on my TV to get rid of the side bars and the picture doesn't become to bad as a result, though the framing issue still remains. I believe the "stretch" option is still there that gets rid of the black bars but it's not a "smart stretch" and stretches the entire picture evenly. The "Just" option isn't there (that option is the one that stretches the edges more than the center.) Then there's a 4x3 option that shows the picture in the middle along with the gray bars common to my TV on the sides.
But, again, I probably need to go back and look to make sure I am remembering this right, TV is a Panasonic.
The LG I tried it on had a zoom function but that trimmed the top and bottom. On all 3 though the just scan took into account the black bars because their actually there in the 1080p video. On DVD they were just 4.3 frames with no added black bars.
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