The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've never had the hate for B&B the way some fans have. I actually would point to the Xindi arc as an example of how you can successfully give an audience a mindless action adventure romp with plenty of eye candy, big battles with lots of ships with little in the way of deep social commentary but where the villians' motivations for destroying a planet make sense. Plus there was a whole lot more in the way of reaction to Earth's attack in "The Expanse" and "Twilight" than we ever saw to Vulcan's destruction in the film.
     
  2. adamisme

    adamisme Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Nov 4, 2007
    yep, now maths for me is hard..time travel easy peesy. Its plain and simple all they had to do was connect the dots on the projector screen lol. The way I see it with Trek, its pretty much like alternate universe like the mirror universe, Spock Prime was born, served with Captain Pike and the Captain Kirk, he eventually became an ambassador and after Nemesis got involved with Nero and the events he tells the alternate Kirk unfold. So out there is the original universe which had TNG, DS9 and Voyager, but it now believed that Spock Prime is dead, but in fact he's in a parallel timeline
     
  3. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    No, not taking the constructive criticism personally. Just taking the term *lazy writing* personally, because yes, I am a writer, but no, not of this film. I don't really care who likes or doesn't like this film; that's up to each individual. That'd be like me telling someone they should like Pepsi instead of Coke. But in context here the OP used the term in relation to "the paucity of Vulcan/Earth's defenses" as something that wasn't explained when it was. It's just the term that grates; not the content of people's comments.
     
  4. weemies

    weemies Cadet Newbie

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    I hated it, but frankly I expected that. It's just a soulless clone of every other modern action movie for the ADHD generation, only in a Star Trek type universe.
     
  5. lawman

    lawman Commander Red Shirt

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    Jul 20, 2007
    So you're saying that you buy that the seven ships sent to Vulcan were the only ships near Earth, and they were all sent away? (I don't recall any dialogue to that effect, and it's risible either way.) And that individual starship captains (even without access to their computers) know codes that can not only get you past the Solar system's defensive sensors (that much I can swallow), but also turn off all Earth's defenses, beyond the possibility of override, including even (e.g.) independently piloted small fighters of the sort that could shoot down the drilling platform? All this poses no problem for you? And you thought it was all so obvious and sensible that it didn't need to be shown or even explained in any detail?

    Really?

    Hear, hear.

    That struck you as a problem? I thought it was one of the best things about the movie.
     
  6. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    One of the Admirals says it (was it Komack? I don't remember specifically). He says "these are the only ships close enough to investigate" or something similar.

    Personally, I'm not sure how Starfleet's defense net should work. But it's what the movie was saying. Nero's right up in Captain Pike's face with the Ceti-type creature and says "I want all the codes for the defense net" or something similar. The implication is that he got them, since he's drilling Earth shortly after.
     
  7. archeryguy1701

    archeryguy1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, you have to bear a couple of things in mind. First, it may just be a mining ship, but it's a mining ship that's 120+ years more advanced than anything else in that time period. Second, according to the Countdown comics...
    [spoiler = countdown] The Narada was enhanced with Borg technology, hence the "tentacles".[/spoiler]
    That alone would make it more than a threat for anything. Finally, the only reason he took Pike was so he could disable the defensive grid. Why blast through it when they could just walk in unimpeaded?
     
  8. Zeppster

    Zeppster Commodore Commodore

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    And in this one Nero asked for the planetary defensive grid of earth from Pike.
     
  9. Top41

    Top41 Vice Admiral Moderator

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    I'm going to read through the posts here after putting up my review, so apologies if this is terribly repetitive. ;)

    I loved it. Excellent all the way. I made a point of going into the movie spoiler-free, aside from reading two reviews (Variety and Entertainment Weekly). I went in with an open mind.

    Boy, am I glad I did. I'm glad I didn't know about Kirk's father dying in the opening scene--that made me cry. I'm glad I didn't know about Spock getting picked on by a group of Vulcan children--his first line made me laugh. I'm glad I didn't know that Spock and Uhura were together--that made me grin. I'm glad I didn't know that Kirk and Spock would be at each other's throats--literally! That tension made for some surprising and wonderful scenes. I'm glad I didn't know that Kirk would find Scotty on some far away planet, on the most remote of starbases. That made me laugh. I'm glad I didn't know that Young Spock and Old Spock would end up meeting. The way Old Spock spoke about the friendship between himself and Kirk made me tear up.

    The movie wasn't perfect--Nero's motivation didn't make a whole lot of sense and he wasn't a particularly compelling bad guy. I admit I'm still not sure how I feel about Vulcan being destroyed. It worked in the movie--it was essential for the movie, even--but as a Trekkie of twenty-some years, that part does pull at the heartstrings more than a little bit.

    The casting was brilliant--the actors didn't ape the old performances, but they inhabited the characters in a way that really did them justice. Star Trek's strength has always been its characters, and this movie effectively brought that out. As it should be, the characters are the strongest part of the film. This is a truly great beginning.
     
  10. Blue_Trek

    Blue_Trek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Gave it an excellent.

    First Contact is still my favorite, this is second now.

    It's a very interesting way to change some things in the Trek Universe up, I didn't mind the changes. Vulcan getting blown away, is a terrible blow.
    Despite all that they did, later on they contributed little to the major battles in the DS9 series. We can get along without the planet Vulcan but not the race of Vulcans.

    Spock's trigger for emotion is his mother, he has a very soft spot for her.
    I count three time when his emotions flared up when his mother was criticized.
    1) As child when he was bullied by the three vulcans.
    2) In front of the Vulcan council, he was seething mad, his "live long and prosper" salutation had the tone of "screw you, you bunch of old fools"
    3) When Kirk taunted him about Vulcan and his mother.

    I found this to be more about Spock than Kirk really, both Spocks seemed more emotional, although maybe because of his home planet getting blown up that is to be expected.

    The battlefield commission handed by out by Pike, may have seemed strange
    but it's in keeping with sci-fi tradition, Captains suddenly promoted to Admirals in other series for example. Also these were all newbie cadets Pike picked a disqualified cadet, with great leadership abilities, who else was he going to pick Sulu, he couldn't even get the ship going.

    At the end of the movie, you really do want to see the next adventure this particular group will encounter as they go to warp. And that is what makes this movie the best success, you want to see the sequel.

    Only the best movies can do that.

    For those that hated it, Star Trek has outgrown you, now. It's sad but true. This level of success equals more movies and a new and larger fan base.

    How is that bad?
     
  11. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Ohio, USA
    Why would I? I like ID4 and Armageddon for what they are. I love this Star Trek movie for what it is, and am quite content with it (well, except for the desire to watch it again and again). I don't look down my nose at people for what movies they like. Hell, one of my favorite movies is Star Trek V, and it's lambasted on a regular basis. For me, though, this movie has been excellent, and I am so excited about Star Trek again!

    J.
     
  12. dkehler

    dkehler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay, that's one ... ;)
     
  13. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I think Urban skates pretty close to this. He was good, mind you, but he could easily have gone wrong there.
     
  14. Nimthim

    Nimthim Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I re-watch both of these movies on occasion - and still enjoy them. And I voted excellent.
     
  15. indranee

    indranee Vice Admiral Admiral

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    yeah but Dr. McCoy always bordered a bit on self-parody.
     
  16. dkehler

    dkehler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm happy for you. Now, let's hear from the many, many people on this BBS who have dumped on those movies in the past. I want to know what they thought of Star Trek.
     
  17. indranee

    indranee Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love nuTrek, but hated Armageddon. ID4 is a guilty pleasure. I watch it furtively, alone, with microwaved popcorn. I even rewind the Brent Spiner death scene multiple times.

    that satisfy you?
     
  18. lawman

    lawman Commander Red Shirt

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    Jul 20, 2007
    So, IOW, two things that should be serious plot points are dismissed with throwaway lines of dialogue that require viewers to swallow implausible premises... but you don't consider this lazy writing. :wtf:

    C'mon. The cast was talented, the money was there for good visuals... but the story just didn't hold up. It's got more holes than a fishnet. There are any number of Trek novelists—heck, I'd bet there are ordinary posters on these forums—who could dream up a much more coherent, compelling story than this was. (And still hit the key points the studio required by way of a "reboot," if it came to that.)

    I really don't. Honestly. My enthusiasm for seeing what these writers and director will do next is pretty much nonexistent.

    I note a lot of people around here posting things like "well, the next one can be about exploration and thoughtful issues and logical storytelling"... but IMHO they're kidding themselves. A movie makes money like this, the only message Hollywood gets is "make another just like this one." IOW, another style-over-substance extravaganza.

    How do you figure? I think the general thesis from those who didn't like it is not that it's grown but that it's regressed, into something simpler and less thoughtful than the original.

    How is it good, unless the actual movies are? I could care less how much money Trek makes, or how many people watch it; what I'm concerned about is the stories it tells.
     
  19. dkehler

    dkehler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes. So what makes Star Trek better than those other two movies other than featuring characters that we "know" much better? I suggest to you there is little to no difference. And that's too bad.
     
  20. indranee

    indranee Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^simple. it's Trek.