The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Saw it again today.

    Warning to everyone, don't think about the film after you see it, it will only make you question your initial impression of it. When I saw it on Friday, I didn't love it like most people but I did enjoy it as a mindless action film but when you have time to really take a step back and digest everything that went on in the film the issues become more pronounced and the chinks in the armor really start to show. I think they crammed too much material into these two hours. By trying to do so many things none of them really receive the kind of development they deserved.

    I started to realize that I intellectually recognized that the writers did something pretty bold and destroyed Vulcan yet when I was considering the assortment of plusses and minuses of the film that destroying Vulcan wasn't high up there. It wasn't carry the kind of shock and impact it really should have viscerally. This is afterall a founding member of the Federation and a world that has been part of Trek since the beginning yet its destruction carried about as much resonance as a nameless planet of the week or destroying a planet in a video game. It wasn't a grim sequence a la ENT's "Twilight". It seemed the writers wanted to do something big and decided to destroy Vulcan but they didn't do enough to do the idea the justice it deserved. Heck, DS9 manged to generate more reaction from me with just hearing that Betazed was occupied by the Dominion on DS9. As I was trying to figure out why it donned on me that there was so much else going on around it got lost in the mix--it was just one of a thousand plot points occurring in the film.

    Yes, they tried to capture the loss with Spock in his scenes with Uhura and with Sarek but they didn't succeed for me. Not enough had been done to give those scenes the kind of richness demanded of them. And for a long time fan such as myself feeling this way I can only imagine the lack of resonance by the uninitiated who are just introduced to this race and its world. Same with Amanda's death, you really have to earn those emotional and visceral payoffs and just destroying a planet or killing off Spock's mother, which was a little iffy in its execution, doesn't automatically guarantee those expected responses especially since Amanda had sum total of about a minute of screentime. We had no reason to invest in it.

    Nero is still a plot device and the vague, thin and fast peak into the events in the late 24th century that propels some of the film's important moments is disappointing and unsatisfying as it comes across as a macguffin and not a series of illuminating scenes informing the audience of why Nero is so angry. I also found Nero wanting as the person who so fundamentally changes the Trek universe. Think of all the times someone has tried it by messing with history and the best they could come up with was Nero?!? He certainly didn't measure up to that kind of stature. Bash ENT all you want, at least B&B did a good job providing the Sphere Builders and the Xindi plausible motivations for why they would want to change history. Also if you are a new fan I would imagine without the necessary exposition they really wouldn't understand who the Vulcans or Romulans are or what there relationship is. At least older fans have the idea of the dynamics at play here. ENT tried to introduce familiar races where new and old fans alike understood who they were.

    I've seen some posters who had issues with Delta Vega being too close to Vulcan or the ludicrous science of the nova/blackhole/red matter--none of that stuff concerns me in the slightest. I also have no objection to Trek being mindless action adventure entertainment. I demand no social allegory or deep meditation. No, I don't think any of those are the issue. It was perfectly fine that the movie was over the top in the effects and action. Loved those elements but what really hurt it was the lack of depth with its villian, its plot, or its emotional payoffs. I think a lot of that was due to trying to do too much. It makes the film look cluttered. I don't know what it is with tv shows and films these days that they love piling way too much and jumping around from one thing to the next instead of focusing on a few specifics and giving them depth and time. Before I've appreciated what just happened and while I'm inthe middle of taking it in they are already on to something else. At times it can be maddening to keep up. At least at home if I didn't catch some bit of dialogue or I'm still thinking about what just took place I can rewind or pause but here it's "moving on!" I certainly don't want a show to drag but I think they could slow down a bit.

    I have been feeling that a lot of these highly praised films like The Dark Knight and Star Trek are a little overrated. I think the quality of writing isn't as good as it used to be or maybe I've just become too jaded or cynical as a viewer but I don't believe so.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  2. T'Grinch

    T'Grinch Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    I'm assuming now in the case of both Romulus (prime timeline) and Vulcan, that they at least had colonies. I figured during the first viewing of the movie that Vulcan's 10,000 rescued from the planet were just those rescued from the planet, not Vulcans on other worlds (colonies or just off-world.)

    Another Vulcan planet might explain why Vulcan had BLUE skies, not red. I hope if we see Vulcans next movie, their skies are red.

    One thing, these Vulcans were snotty, not just the kiddies giving Spock crap, but the adults as well. Hopefully, having their planet destroyed and then needing Federation (human) assistance will give them a new appreciation for humans and the realization that even though Vulcans are stronger physically and usually smarter than humans, that doesn't make 'em better.

    I assume it'll knock out some of the arrogance of the race.
     
  3. Docbrown777

    Docbrown777 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Location:
    One step ahead of the Heat
    I'd like to make a longer post but I don't have time.

    Saw it for the first time last night and thought it was totally awesome! The opening and music, the way the Enterprise looked and moved around(Ex: rising from Titan), the cast and their behavior was great and very well done and I felt the comedy elements were done just right.

    To sum it up I really enjoyed sitting there and watching this movie. :)
     
  4. agordy85

    agordy85 Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Star Trek is officially back!!!

    Well, it's taken me a few days to get to the site to post my review, as little as it will be, but I'm here now and I have to say...WOW! Star Trek was the best Trek movie I've ever seen in theaters. The scale of this movie was phenominal and the acting was 110%. Everyone brought their A-game and made this movie that much better. I also have to say this: the music was it's own monster! I could not get over how epic the score to this movie was. Alexander Courage and Jerry Goldsmith would be proud of Michael Giacchino for all the hard work he put into making the movie score as grand as the biggest space operas we've all seen. I just want to hug J.J. Abrams for breathing new life into the Star Trek franchise. I'm ready to see what's next for the crew of the Enterprise. I also have to say that I'm very happy for how well the movie is doing at the box office. Almost $80 million in it's opening weekend, and that's not including worldwide sales, so I can't wait to see what it will do in 2 weeks. They've already gotten 2 admissions from me, and I'm sure I'll go see it 2 MORE times before it leaves theaters, and then it's on to Blu Ray!
     
  5. mrmyxyzptlk

    mrmyxyzptlk Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    I LOVED the movie.
    But is no one else creeped out by the Spock-Uhura thing? I could have done without that.
     
  6. mrmyxyzptlk

    mrmyxyzptlk Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    I LOVED the movie.
    But is no one else creeped out by the Spock-Uhura thing? I could have done without that.
     
  7. Sky

    Sky Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Tokyo
    :guffaw:

    Exactly. This film will be GREAT! as long as you don't think. At all.

    (I am being ironic; on my first viewing I found some things problematic but mostly liked it, then I saw it again and thought for awhile and - meh.)

    Thanks, startrekwatcher, for your thoughtful review. I agree with you on the problem of the lack of emotional impact (loss of Vulcan, loss of Amanda) and the film being just too cluttered to have any kind of depth.
     
  8. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    ^ I loved it on my first viewing, and only subsequently have the issues really hit me. I wonder if I can go back where I started by re-watching it, or if those issues will bug me throughout.

    I think it would help if people read Q-Squared before watching the film, because the alternate universe thing seems to go over the heads of many - despite the sledgehammer bridge conversation.
     
  9. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    I like this film, flaws aside, but I really dislike that manner of thinking. To suggest that every criticism of the film is invalid is a very narrow and frankly arrogant view.

    There are problems with the film that do not fall into any of those categories, and to dismiss them and those who raise them so simply is unfair.
     
  10. TheMurph

    TheMurph Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
    TN
    The wife and I went and saw it Saturday and we are in agreement that it is one of the best Trek movies yet. ST II being my favorite I think this ranks in at number two.

    The opening is phenomenal with serious emotional impact (the wife was misty eyed during the George Kirk/Winona Kirk scenes, especially after little Jimmy was born and George was asking about him). I'm a little disappointed with the performance of the actor who played Capt. Robeau (sp?) and with the performance of the actor who played Sarek. Other than that the acting was superb, especially Urban as McCoy.

    The destruction of Vulcan had an impact that will be felt in this universe (not the same as the prime uni, so get over it people) if they make more movies. They had to cram a lot into this movie and they did as well as could be expected.

    4.75 out of 5


    ***ETA***

    The Kirk to Captain bit wasn't as mind boggling as many said it would be.
     
  11. ITL

    ITL Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Palace Of The Brine
    This has probably been mentioned already, but when Spock sat down in the pilot's seat of the Jellyfish the placement of the triangular chair and circular center section of the forward window looked suspiciously like the IDIC symbol.

    You know I'm right...

    :D
     
  12. Schiefy

    Schiefy Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Wow! Over 1300 comments on the new movie so far! Way to many to read and figure out if my thoughts duplicates things already said or not.

    First, some background: I am an original Trekker when TOS was first on the air (although I really got into when it was syndicated every weekday afternoon after school). I was a member of a local fan club and managed to get quite involved and attended 3 cons in NYC from 1977-1978. Saw most of the original cast members and some of the various guest stars including the surprise visit by Leonard Nimoy when he wasn't going to do Spock again! Okay, flash forward to the new movie...

    Saw it at a 7pm showing on the IMAX Thursday night. As many others have commented--it went too fast! So, the first positive is the pacing of the story moved along very nicely without any long flyovers of alien ships or even of the Enterprise itself. Speaking of the Enterprise--while the new ship was impressive in action I at least appreciated that the writers acknowledged the one thing I didn't like: boobies on the Enterprise so Scotty really nailed it with his comments. But, that is really a minor issue for me.

    I thought the plot summary on "Fringe" really helped prepare us for where the new movie was going--an alternative timeline. In this way, "canon" was preserved while opening up new possibilities within the Trek universe without being tied down to old, stale timeline that limited what could be done because of "canon." Although the timeline has been altered before (First Contact being a good example) there was no effort to "right" the timeline--instead, through the character of Spock, the universe was only "nudged" a little bit in the right direction to preserve the relationships that have been at the heart of TOS.

    As a TOS fan I saw enough of the "good old days" while making the movie a contemporary delight to my children (and even my wife who enjoys Trek only because she accepted it amongst my other idiosyncracies when she married me). Now, the challenge for Abrams and team is whether they can keep a freshness about Trek and the heart of Trek in future adventures without settling into the overly familiar scenario of not so "boldly going where everyone has already gone."
     
  13. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    Nov 18, 2008
    Does the novel contain more information on why certain aspects of the time line changed? For example, Enterprise not launching until 2258 instead of 2245. Chekov's birth is 4 yrs earlier.
     
  14. Vader47000

    Vader47000 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Emotional Detachment?

    Heavy Spoilers to follow ...
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    OK, so the opening scenes, depicting the birth of Kirk, are among the most memorable of the film. I'm a longtime Trek fan who was very cynical about the prospects of this movie, but I have to admit tearing up a little during this sequence. I was starting to get pulled back into the Trek fold.

    And then the movie gradually lost me again. Why? This whole concept of alternate realties, even spelling it out, just felt wrong to me.

    Take the example of the destruction of Vulcan. I'm sure this was meant by the filmmakers to create a major emotional resonance with the core audience. Seeing this fundamental planet of the Trek universe implode should have generated a major emotional reaction to draw me into the film.

    And yet, almost nothing. Rather than create an emotional investment in the film, the scene had almost the opposite effect. I couldn't shake the feeling that creatively it was so very wrong, since Vulcan was not destroyed in the real timeline. So instead of caring about the rest of the movie, I'm watching it with a dispassionate distance, registering the events but not quite accepting them as Star Trek.

    I had probably had more of a reaction to the news that Romulus was destroyed by a supernova, since this is supposedly the post-Nemesis story of the real timeline.

    One of the things I liked about Star Trek was that it had this rich history that more or less fit together very well, despite a few inconsistencies that could be explained away.

    This movie was supposed to be the story of the original Enterprise crew coming together. But since it's an alternate reality, at an emotional level the connection with "my" Star Trek was tenuous at best. This was no longer a history I cared about.

    Given all the hoops the writers tried to go through to connect the existing storylines, I think they'd probably be better served just doing a straight-up reimagining. At least then you wouldn't have to bring the fans along with as much emotional baggage.
     
  15. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Emotional Detachment?

    Hmmm. That's too bad. I didn't have that reaction. I felt emotionally connected and invested in the characters and the story.
     
  16. MvRojo

    MvRojo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Re: Emotional Detachment?

    Same here. I actually thought that of all the films, I was the most emotionally connected in this film.
     
  17. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
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    I think any continuity issues should be chalked up to changes the writers wanted. I wouldn't overthink it.
     
  18. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not going to read through 66 pages of comments, so sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

    I'd give it a B-. Above average on this poll. Easily the best Star Trek of the decade, though that doesn't say much. It's good, but not great.

    I'm sure the wonky science has been covered.

    Some of the dialogue was pretty corny. It seems that there was at least one line in every scene about how "Starfleet regulation XYZ says a bunch of phoney sounding legal jargon". That got old pretty quick.

    Kirk's spiel to Spock about his mother was pretty cringe inducing as well. Yeah, I know she's dead and Spock would be upset, but the way the scene came off just makes Spock look like a momma's boy.

    Apart from those relatively minor complaints, I was pretty well entertained.
     
  19. DiSiLLUSiON

    DiSiLLUSiON Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Emotional Detachment?

    Too bad you didn't get the fulfillment out of the movie that I and many others did. Fortunately for you, there are still the oldTrek series and movies to watch.
     
  20. fresh

    fresh Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Apr 11, 2009
    Re: Emotional Detachment?

    I felt an emotional attachment, less to Vulcan than to Spock's mother, Amanda.
    Seeing her die in front of Spock was bigger than watching Vulcan go in my opinion.

    And yes, the opening scene was emotional.