The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.


Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
  1. Kruge

    Kruge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    I am still trying to take this all in...this film is, in a word,'s very good, and I voted above average, but it's one of those things I'm going to have to take time to digest...

    At first, I was a bit dissappointed...the opening scenes are extraordinary, but the way outer space scenes look in this film is VERY similar to the dissapointing Lost In Space film...everything looks just like that film...and yet, as time went on, I realized that where Lost In Space failed, Star Trek works...the movie has a very comic-bookish look to it..if you don't know what I mean, then recall the space scenes from either Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer or Superman Returns...again, this film succeeds where those failed, but it took a while to win me over with the style...It's just such a novel idea for Trek, but it's done well...

    The lens flares were irritating as hell...I don't know how anyone could not have noticed this...too much...hopefully, Abrams cuts back in the sequel...

    The actors were all great, except that Chekov's accent is so annoying, that if he wasn't such a goofy, likeable character, you'd want him marooned on Delta Vega along with Kirk...but the standout here was Pine. Why? Because even though Pegg, Urban, and Quinto do excellent jobs at imitating their predecessors (Quinto is a bit nasally, but still fantastic), Pine takes the Kirk character and runs with it. I was totally unconvinced until the swagger and arrogance I saw in the Kobayashi Maru's absolutely hilarious and it's an original take...I expected Pine to be nothing more than a pretty boy...I was wrong...I was never a huge Kirk fan until now...seriously, he's that good, you just root for him the whole time..

    Leonard Nimoy's appearance was a lot more substantial than I expected, and I know I will take flack for this, but I was a bit is wonderful to see him on screen, and it's surreal (I should say that his appearance in this film adds to the comic-book truly feel like you're in an alternate universe when he shows up)...He still has the quiet dignity, and he's still Spock, but he had this tendency to re-hash his best known lines ("I am, and ever shall be, your friend") in moments where they lost their impact. It's still cool that he's in this continuity.. I doubt that Nimoy will make another appearance, but at least we have some sense of Spock's ultimate fate by the end of the, this Spock has mellowed ALOT with age...he's VERY emotional, as if he has come to accept his human side alot more with age...there's no "fascinating", no "if logic dictates", and he's almost hyperactive when he sees Jim, which is touching because it's so sweet to see old Spock look on his long dead friend's young face again... but again, I was happy to see him...

    I'm not going to see this film again in was very well done, but I'd rather watch it on DVD and take time in between to let it sink in...again, while I enjoyed it, it's just such a radical take on Star Trek that it takes a while to really comprehend...but I can say this: I am swelling with pride to see these characters again...everyone did a great job (Pine and Cho surprisingly well), and you get the feeling that despite the fact that you are VERY well aware that this is another reality, these are the same people...I can't explain this, it's an emotional thing that you either feel or don't feel...again, surreal...

    To to sum up: this is Star Trek done comic book style - whizzbang fast, with bold new effects, and a dynamic young cast...the sci fi is more along the lines of Fantastic Four than say previous Trek series...the look is like Lost in Space: bright, shiny, lots of holograms and visual displays everywhere...I didn't like the engineering deck (it looks like a damn chemical plant), but I liked the brisk pace of the ship (everyone is actually DOING something, running around to keep the damn thing running, not just standing at a console)

    I'm sorry that my post is so disjointed...I don't mean to ramble, but I really feel like I was in an alternate reality just now, and I need to sleep on it...

    Oh yes, and one last matter what anyone says, this film takes place in 2258...why? Because Countdown is explicity stated to take place in the year 2387...during the mind meld sequence, Old Spock tells Kirk ("The future..thats where I'm from, Jim...129 years from now") So do the all adds up...2233, Kirk is born...2258, the events in this film...just thought I'd throw that in there as it was something that I thought was so obvious that I can't believe people are still debating it...

    Well, good night for now...I have a feeling I'll be having some trippy dreams :)
  2. galleywest

    galleywest whaaaaaat?? Premium Member

    Dec 20, 2004
    hither and yon
    Ha, didn't even see you'd posted just before me! I was wondering how you liked it.

    I do agree that the time travel/parallel universe thing was a cop-out (I went in COMPLETELY spoiler-free, which I think actually harmed me because I had to acclimate too quickly). I thought, I truly did, that surely they would not use time travel yet again in this one. The conclusion I am kind of coming around to, however, is that the Trek Universe we know and love it still there, we're just not going to see it in the movies anymore. And as such, again, I think I agree that it's not quite the real deal.

    But, you know, there have been plenty of things in the run of the shows/movies I didn't like, and I just reconciled them in my mind (because it's fiction so I can), so I figure I will do that here, too. I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see it again.
  3. Tim

    Tim Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 25, 2005
    Red Sox Nation
    Yep. Agree on all points. There's the weak "alternate universe" cop-out, but come on...this isn't Terminator.

    I did not like the production design. It was just...lazy. Engineering was a friggin' brewery with a few flat-panel LCD displays thrown in there! They should've made some effort to make it seem futuristic.
  4. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

    Dec 26, 2002
    really a lot of stuff that happened in tos could still happen.
    while some things will be brand new .. which the writers admitted is one reason they did it..
    that we wont know now everything that might happen to these people.

    and while i wish we saw a little more of that one section of engineeriing that looked well more spacey i dont have issues with a lot of sections were we just saw tubes ect..
    we only saw very little of the tos engineering and with main engineering grid being made up of use tubes they came from some place..
  5. Tim

    Tim Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 25, 2005
    Red Sox Nation
    Yeah, but the cop-out is so lame it just insults my intelligence. I was hoping that the destruction of Nero would erase his timeline meddling and restore things. Yes, I would have preferred a reset button on this. Perhaps Trek XII will do that, but I think Abrams is rather enamoured of his take.

    You're a braver woman than I (well, that and the fact that I'm not a woman). I just don't have the heart to see this movie again any time soon.

    Also, Trek is supposed to have a hopeful view in the future. It would've been nice if Quinto-Spock, knowing the future from Nimoy-Spock, would be able to save Romulus and thus avoid the dual genocides of the Romulans and Vulcans. Instead, we get this "grittier" Trek in which billions are dead.
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  6. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 1, 2004
    I've said this before another way, I feel I must say it again:

    These particular fans actually believe that page 4 (EDIT: pardon me, TO:00:00:04) of Franz Joseph's "Star Fleet Technical Manual" is a real memo from the United States Military referencing a real transmission from the Enterprise when it arrived in the 1960s in "Tomorrow is Yesterday." They've also said many times that because of this movie's existence, the television series TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY *cease to exist*. They're not living in reality.

    They did come up with a "canon" explanation for this -- they took the "replaceable bridge module" idea from the "Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual" and applied it to these movies so that they could put out of their mind that it was really due to artistic license by the movie producers.

    And, my favorite -- the Eugenics Wars with Khan Singh. Star Trek "canon" and fan "timelines" all had the Eugenics Wars and the "rise of the genetic supermen" occurring in the 1990s. By the time the 90s rolled around and this didn't actually happen in real life, they updated all of their fan timelines, literally, to say all of this warfare occurred "in secret." These fans do not want to face the fact that they are not living in the fictional Star Trek universe. Star Trek XI is not just a movie to them. It's the destruction of the fantasy they live in.

    I've been a Star Trek fan for twenty-six years and thanks to these fans, I usually keep that fact guarded in real life outside of message boards.

    About this -- I haven't seen this movie yet -- I'm seeing it Saturday -- please tell me I don't have to read these comic books to enjoy or understand the movie, because I would be irked if that were the case.
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  7. Kruge

    Kruge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    You don't have to, but the way Spock Prime tells the story its sort of the stripped down see him talking to the Romulans, you see Romulus destroyed, but if you're like me, you want to see more, so you might considering reading more out of curiosity...

    In a nutshell: Spocks recounting will be sufficient for the audience, but as a Trek fan, I want to know more :)
  8. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 1, 2004
    Cool, thanks. I might just have to check it out then, not out of necessity, but as you say, to "fill it out" a little.
  9. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Jun 20, 2001
    I'm gonna have to get it too.
  10. T'Boo

    T'Boo Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

    Apr 1, 2000
    T'Bonz - Across the Neutral Zone
    I ordered it earlier this evening. Along with the novelization of Star Trek.
  11. pajamahead

    pajamahead Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Feb 24, 2006

    My childhood has been violated!

    I kid, I loved this movie, it was amazing. Too bad there is no rating above excellent, I would have chose that.

    To quote Admiral Kirk, "Come, come, Mr. Scott. Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant"!

    Might go see it again tomorrow. Star Trek movies are the only ones I see more than once in the theater (except Nemesis). Funny, before Nemesis I always thought it was weird that the Romulans had never been the bad guy in the movies. Then 2 movies in a row they are.

    I agree that engineering and some parts of the ships were not very advanced looking. Hopefully they will fix that in Star Trek 2.
  12. Kruge

    Kruge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt be honest, the mind meld/flash back scene was one of my favorites in the film, because it links everything together, and Nimoy's voice is filled with such a sense of WONDER

    "The future Jim, that's where I'm from...129 years from now..."

    It almost made me want to grab onto that scene and say "No wait, I'm not ready for this new incarnation, take me back!!"...but seriously, I want to see where this thing is heading :)
  13. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Because the singularity appeared within the ship, that's why it was destroyed...the very fact that it is a singularity, and all physical laws break down, really renders your comment that a black hole cannot be a portal moot...we really don't know what will happen inside a black hole.

  14. The Boy Who Cried Worf

    The Boy Who Cried Worf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 12, 2008
    My Slightly Negative Review(Spoilers)

    I just got back from the movie so of course I had to come straight here and post my review. As always I attended with my non-Trek fan girlfriend who can provide the view of the general public. A word of advice for anybody in the South Bay area of LA County. Go see the movie at the Regal Terrace Cinema in Rancho Palos Verdes. I bought my tickets online, but I didn't need to as once I got there the box office was closed and nobody was taking tickets at the door. At least on this night anybody could have walked right in and saw any movie they wanted for free.

    Of Course Spoilers Ahead

    My overall impression was slightly negative. A defenite mixed bag with a lot of good moments eventually overcome by structural flaws. I consider myself somewhat of a stickler on adhering to continuity, but I don't think I take it to the extreme. There is no way this movie is anything but a complete re-boot though and should be seen that way. This is Star Trek's version of Marvel's Ultimate Universe. The fact that all the characters are roughly the same age can't be explained away through time travel. Maybe a wizard did it. For the first 45 minutes or so of the movie it was defenitely disconcerting adjusting myself to this new history. I had to ease into it. After awhile though that feeling subsided and I was able to abandon my pre-conceptions and say okay they are going to give me a new story I'll see where it goes. Spock macking on Uhura was rather jarring, but still I was able to settle in.

    The movie was visually stunning. We have never seen Trek on this epic of a scale before even in the TNG movies. It was nice to see Vulcan presented for the first time as an actual modern planet with cities rather than a bunch of rocks and caves. The bridge of the Enterprise, all shiny and well lit seemed more like I would expect a starship with hundreds of people would operate. The poorly lit, ambiguous quality of the Romulan ship was a disapointment. I have seen better looking black holes too.

    The part of the movie that I thought was a horrible, horrible mistake was the inclusion of Leonard Nimoy. Generations at least had a raison d'etre for including the original cast. So much comparison had been done between TOS and TNG that it was kind of a passing the torch moment. But in this film which was I said can only be seen as a complete re-boot I kept asking myself who this Spock was supposed to be. He is not the Spock we have watched for the last 40 years. His constant references to a history between him and Kirk only accentuated that he was talking about some history we had never seen Immediately upon seeing Nimoy that disconcertion I had finally gotten rid of came back in droves. Nimoy's performance was decidedly sub-par. It was as if Nimoy could barely contain a grin that said "hey look it's me again, Leonard Nimoy as Spock, it's fun seeing me again isn't it". His appearance in the ice cave is one of the greatest examples of shoe-horning a character into a movie I have ever seen.

    There were problems with the basic plot as well. I for one dislike time travel stories. Rarely is anything interesting done with them anymore, and for the most part the paradoxes they bring up are summarily ignored to advance a story line. Same here. I strongly believe that the time travel story severerly underminded the success of the re-booting of the story. As I said I consider this film to be a re-boot and trying to use the time travel device to account for almost any of the changes will only lead to muddle. Even with the destruction of Romulus there has to be billions of Romulans left in the galaxy and Nero's single minded obsession makes no sense. I didn't quite buy a mining ship as being so heavily armed, its crew being so scientifically proficient, or how they stuck around for 25 years either.

    I am not sure a bitter Romulan miner makes for an effective villian as well. The description of Romulus destruction sounded comic booky to me and again seemed another example of something shoe-horned into the movie. Nothing in Eric Bana's performance brought any depth to the character beyond what we already knew of him. He grumbled appropriately, but this is a villian who exists because the plot needed a villain. I also thought the plot and even the Romulan ship design was heavily remeniscent of the Kremin Time Ship in Voyager's Year of Hell.

    The cast was a mixed bag for me too. I am sorry, but watching Chris Pine I could not for one moment stop thinking he looks and sounds and acts way too much like Brad Pitt. Zachary Quinto was the best of the lot presenting a Spock who has embraced his Vulcan heritage, but knows it is a constant fight to maintain that Vulcan stoicism. Often supporting characters are thrid or fourth fiddles at best, but here they are presented as strong and smart and the actors played them that way. Chekov is the boy wonder, Sulu is kind of a bad-ass who gets to save the captains life, and Uhura is a lot more than a glorified telephone operator here. Simon Pegg was the only one who came across as too jokey in the role. And did anybody notice how much Karl Urban looks like Gary Lockwood from Where No Man Has Gone Before

    My girlfriend actually liked the movie a lot more than I did. The time travel story and the whole Romulan ship completely lost her, but she was very into the characterization. She especially enjoyed Uhura's role and her love affair with Spock. As with many motion pitures of this kind it will appeal to the genral public even more than the core audience I expect the film will do huge business. Strangely though I wouldn't mind seeing this cast in their own show. The more history I can get with these characters the more I can consider this version a real Star Trek 2.0 which has all the basic elements to do some good things.
  15. Kruge

    Kruge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    I'm sorry, but I'm having a brain fart and can't remember:

    Did James Kirk die at the rank of Admiral or Captain? I was watching Generations today, and I can't remember...he was an Admiral, then got busted (happily) down to Captain again (his best destiny)...

    "You were considered a great man, and eventually became Captain of the Enterprise...but that was another life, which I will deprive you of"

    So we remember him as Captain right?? I just can't remember!!!
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Aug 22, 2002
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: My Slightly Negative Review(Spoilers)

    Moving to the pinned Grading & Discussion thread.
  17. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Re: My Slightly Negative Review(Spoilers)

    I liked it.

    Good characterizations. Great character moments..

    It's not the Star Trek I grew up with, and yet it is Star Trek.

    I am curious to see what the next film will bring.
  18. Kruge

    Kruge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Re: My Slightly Negative Review(Spoilers)

    I am so glad that you said this, you really nailed this part and I am glad I am not the only one who felt this way

    I was so happy to see Nimoy there on the one hand...

    On the other hand, this wasn't Spock :vulcan:..this was Nimoy who could barely contain his excitement to be a part of this project...he seemed so WAS touching to see his face when he saw Jim Kirk again, but he re-hashed his old lines at the most inappropriate times...really, this Spock just seemed amused to be seeing his old friends again...

    Oh well, you can't win ever time :)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2009
  19. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 6, 2001
    Sac, Ca
    Wow, don’t know about you guys, but I’m definitely going to have to see this one a second time before I can form a proper opinion on it.

    I thought I was prepared for the changes, but there were just SO many new things to take in visually that I had trouble really focusing on and following the story. Not only that, but the feel and rythym is just so completely different from what I’m used to in Trek. That really threw me off too.

    Still though, my main impression was that the designs and acting were superb (absolutely love Pine’s Kirk), and most of the plot works too. The only weak spot was Nero and the unnecessarily complicated time-travel backstory. I have no problem with the basic IDEA of it, but somehow the way it was explained in the movie was silly beyond belief (even with Nimoy explaining it).

    But like I said, I need to see the movie again to get a proper sense of the story and whether or not the movie as a WHOLE works.

    For now…. I’d give the movie a 7 out of 10 (TWOK, TSFS, TVH and FC still rate higher in my book).
  20. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Re: My Slightly Negative Review(Spoilers)

    *SHRUGS* Spock was 10 times more integral to this plot than Kirk was in Generations. Oh well can't make everyone happy.:techman:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2009