The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. ialfan

    ialfan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I know what you mean. At age 19, I feel like this new Star Trek is just not really for me and my Star Trek is gone forever. :(
     
  2. Captain Pike

    Captain Pike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral


    So true. I can't believe that initially when I first heard about this casting choice that I was worried he wouldn't be able to pull it off and I that I doubted him. He was one of the best things about the film.
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    The very first shots of the Kelvin bridge just - they had a very "we're not in Kansas any more" effect on me. Daymn!
     
  4. mynameisgorn

    mynameisgorn Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    My criticisms:

    They didn't have respect for the size of the universe. They made it look small.

    I agree with Ebert's criticisms. They were transporting from Saturn to Earth? Or from Delta Vega onto the ship?

    And how is it that Spock could see Vulcan from Delta Vega? I also agree that it was convenient how Spock and Scotty both ended up there.

    Also, what they were doing for 25 years was hard to fathom. Likewise with the rapid promotions.

    And what was the point of firing at the Narada once it was in the grip of the black hole? Why not just turn around and Warp Away right then? How did ejecting the warp core help them escape?

    And last, but not least, the first time the Narada encounters a black hole it travels through time. The second time, it falls apart? Huh?
     
  5. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Like I said, the only thing I didn't like was the rapid-fire editing. The action sequences were edited too quickly for me to enjoy it. Just like in Batman Begins and Quatum of Suckatude. Stop editing the scenes so bloody quick. It is NOT good filmmaking.

    Nero needed more time to be fleshed out. Here's hoping a future extended edition of this film will do that. I did read he had an entire subplot deleted from the film.

    I did like Nero's scene with Pike a lot though. Centuri Eels? Pike should have been like...

    "It's Ceti Eels, God damn it! JJ Abrams might not respect Trek canon but I do!" ;)
     
  6. Kaijima

    Kaijima Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Location:
    United States
    My impressions:

    First, this was the most fun I've ever had with a Star Trek film. Hands down. The crack someone made about this being the first /real/ movie of "that 60's show" is spot on. This honestly feels like the first real movie of Star Trek to me, because, perhaps, the creators of it were not /too close/ to the property to not miss the forest for the trees. This is the movie made, not for "the casuals" as some hardcore Trekkies like to believe, but rather, for people who enjoyed Star Trek as entertainment - not quite as much for people who fixated on Star Trek as an alternate fictional reality like the hardcore fan tends to.

    The key thing about the film for me was this: there was chemistry among the cast and most of the time it crackled with energy. The whole movie is alive with energy and it's infectious. For an ensemble piece like Star Trek, having a cast that is "alive" as a group is the most important thing.

    Next, the screen writing was very cunning I felt in that the writers seemed to be clearly aware when they were dealing with stereotypical Star Trek scenarios. Time and again, they'd have the characters edge towards the 4th wall, turning a classic Trek dialog exchange on its head, sometimes for dramatic effect, other times for comedic. Kirk's romp in the Kobyashi Maru scene was priceless, and the scene at the end where Kirk and Spock face down Nero on the viewscreen - every line is knowingly a play on what Star Trek at its most stereotypical and lifeless would trot out. I realize some object to Kirk's eagerness to blow Nero away, but I felt it was perfect in context of all the hell that everyone had just gone through. This was after all, young, unseasoned Kirk, at his most brash and headstrong.

    After all that, I really appreciated the visuals of the film. There was at times perhaps a bit much shakey in some moments but it wasn't as bad as the shakey-cam allergic made it out to be. What I appreciated was a strong sense of trying to make things real, with a sense of being there, crazy lens flair and all. I also appreciated how punchy everything was, from the practically gunshot warp drive initiation effects to the intense sizzle and crackle from energy weapons fire in close quarters.

    The one thing that did let me down a bit was the downside of who wrote the movie and how they wrote it (everything has a downside, no matter how good). The Trek Science bits involved with explaining the backstory, as given by Old Spock, were pretty terrible, with offhand mentions of a single super nova that "threatened the galaxy" and no explanation whatsoever that Spock would have known how to use a black hole to achieve time travel - making it seem as if the /regular result/ of just randomly diving through a black hole is time travel. The thing is, certain details like this are recognizable enough to even laymen and casual viewers to seem hokey and silly. While it's granted that Star Trek has things like warp drive and transporters, those things are science fiction Black Boxes: additional rules to the laws of physics that some unknown technology is capable of manipulating. People will accept that and it won't grate.

    Despite the terrible science (fiction) writing at a few key points, overall I felt what we got was damned fine and the best general space adventure film, well, since I'm not sure what. It's been a while.
     
  7. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Location:
    Melbourne, VIC
    Re: This is not your father's Star Trek.

    I know how you feel, but do remember that the old friend is still there, the episodes you know and love are still there. I tihnk the film, as much as it hurts, needed to move into a new continuity, in order to give it some level of threat. I don't think it means the continuity we know and love has been wiped out, any more than Enterprise's many time travels wiped out our future shows.
     
  8. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Re: This is not your father's Star Trek.


    A perfect criticism, because it means we can all watch over and over again and still see more. I have a feeling it will be the most watched DVD I own when it comes out.

    RAMA
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    One thing did annoy me.. the fat Vulcanoid ears. Why? I miss the elegant tapered ears.
     
  10. Tikkun

    Tikkun Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Re: This is not your father's Star Trek.


    We're either growing or we are dying. Trek needs to grow - and bring in new generations, new fans, new ideas - but all the old ones won't disappear. Even the worst forms of Trek have brought something new to it.

    I am going Sunday morning - my daughter is taking me out for mother's day. Hard to wait - but she's worth waiting for. But every positive review brings me joy!!

    Wohooooo!!:techman:
     
  11. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Re: This is not your father's Star Trek.

    True. I hope they will allow classic Star Trek to continue in novels.
     
  12. TGTheodore

    TGTheodore Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Location:
    TGTheodore
    Er ... Nero/Rome. Rome/Romulus.

    --Ted
     
  13. Feofilakt

    Feofilakt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    I'm also a younger Trek fan and I feel about zero connection towards the Abrams Trek. I have very found memories of TNG, Deep Space Nine, and the various games. The MMO coming out eventually actually excites me, as does the thought of Dominion or Borg being eventual playable characters. What does not thrill me, however, is the seeming lack of a philosophical or otherwise intellectual core within the new trek movie. While there have been some episodes that were primarily action based, the action was not the totality of the series. Even with the movies, with perhaps the Wrath of Khan and First Contact being the most action based, had a message. Wrath of Khan touched upon revenge and madness, while First Contact addressed the nature of fear and overcoming such. From what I can gather the new trek movie has no such message, but I would love to see someone really analyze the movie and come up with one, as it would greatly improve the movie in my eyes.

    I also do feel somewhat patronized by the nature of the new trek and how it is supposedly marketed to younger viewers. I'm a twenty four year old male, and while I may be a bit more philosophical than the typical sort, I feel somewhat offended that this is Abrams view of my generation. It has an overall more Star Warsy characteristic to it, and while I also enjoy Star Wars, I believe that there is real, although not certain, danger in doing so. You run the risk of losing the soul of Trek, the tendency to ask questions about the human condition and the ramifications of things ranging from gender roles to imperialism. If Star Trek in it's "new" form were to turn into more of a space opera operation akin to Star Wars, I don't think it would have as much appeal. We have Star Wars for Star Wars, correct? If the younger generation are going to define what Trek is by the movie and its sequels, just as I judged Trek by TNG, what does that mean for the future perception of Star Trek? If it becomes a mere space opera without the trappings of a more intellectual brand of sci-fi, I feel we will have lost what was special about Star Trek.
     
  14. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    I saw it. Now I can finally read all of the spoilery stuff posted here. I hope to get though it by the time Star Trek XII comes out.

    It's Showtime!

    I bought my ticket on Monday and spent the rest of the week dreading today. Why? I didn't want to sit in a crowded theatre. I spent a little more money and got a ticket at a larger theatre, but still... There's that concern. Anyhoo, The start time was 7pm, so I made sure I arrived at 6pm but ended up in a line anyway. I was close to the front and watched it get pretty long as more people trickled in. Some of them were even dressed up in starfleet uniforms, TOS and TNG style. There were even a few pretty hot ladies in the skirt uniforms. Oddly enough, no one in the line acknowleged the folks in uniform. When I finally went into the theatre, I got myself a good seat and despite the long line, the theatre wasn't crowded. I had my space. I was relieved. This was going to be a good movie-going experience. Eventually the lights dimmed and I was watching Star Trek.

    My Opinion

    I saw the first official showing and I'm still the 110th person to vote. :lol:

    My grade? Above Average. Looks like I'm in the minority too. I debated what grade to give this as I drove home and couldn't bring myself to give it an 'Excellent' eventhough I wanted to. It was a really fun Star Trek movie with a blockbuster feel, but I wasn't totally happy with everything. Here's what I liked and didn't like...

    The Good

    - As mentioned, they did good giving Trek a summer blockbuster feel. This is the first time in a long time that Trek has felt this way. The last few movies felt more like Berman products than good Trek movies or big budget films.

    - Loved most of the characters and the performances. I'll go into more detail below.

    - Loved the colorful Power Rangers-style production designs. Yes, I said "Power Rangers". Kids in colorful costumes battling evil with cool tech? Hey, that's what the movie looked like that to me. :rommie:

    - Loved the cinematography. The lens flares didn't bother me in the least. They really added some flair to the movie. :p

    - They actually worked "Sabotage" by The Beastie Boys into a Star Trek movie. :cool:

    - Destroying Vulcan was a big and gutsy move. I mean WOW! :eek: That's big stuff. Downplayed too much, but still big and I'll give em credit for doing it even if the execution wasn't grand enough.

    The Bad

    - Despite loving the ride, the story wasn't memorable. With the complicated time travel plot, it didn't strike me as great drama, great science fiction or great Trek. I wonder if it'll confuse the average movie-goer who thought this would be a good foray into Trek.

    - When the movie was over, I found myself wishing the story had more of that exploring of strange new worlds feel that TOS had. I did like the traditional Captain Kirk showdown at the end though.

    - The origin story of how everyone got together was too rushed and put together poorly. And what's up with Cadet Kirk getting command of the Enterprise right away? :wtf: Still, I'll cut 'em a wee bit of slack because a lot of it was funny and well performed.

    - It didn't have the most memorable soundtrack. Some of the other Trek movies had better ones.

    The Ugly

    - No Nurse Chapel, Yeoman Rand or Number One. I know they want to get back to basics, but Chapel and Rand at least were big players in the original series and deserved some screentime. I really hope they appear in Star Trek XII.

    Other Observations

    - So, Kirk wasn't born in Iowa eh?

    - Enterprise's Engineering setion didn't look like something you'd find on a ship like that. Didn't even look like it could fit inside the ship.

    - Some people didn't like the product placement, but I actually got a kick out of seeing a Nokia phone in the 23rd century.

    - What was up with the Enterprise being built in Iowa on the ground anyway?

    - I wonder what caused Romulus' sun to blow up.

    The Verdict

    - Despite the bad and the ugly, I really liked the movie and especially the way they managed to reset Trek and integrate it into the story. Well done. I also look forward to future adventures with great hopes that the next one will indeed get an 'Excellent' from me. This wasn't excellent because it could have been better. It was still a cut above "average" though.

    Now as promised, here's more on the characters, most of whom I enjoyed watching...

    James T. Kirk

    Chris Pine was fantastic as Kirk. I've always imagined Kirk as a bit of a quiet bookworm who eventually came out of his shell, but enjoyed this take none the less. They set Kirk up as a cocky bad boy, and Pine captured it very well with fun and humor. You could even see a few of those Shatnerian manerisms here and there.

    Mr. Spock

    Zachary Quinto also did well in his role. He played a new version of Spock very well.

    Leonard McCoy

    Karl Urban did alright as Dr. McCoy. I wasn't blown away, but I wasn't disapponted either.

    Mr. Scott

    Simon Pegg's Scotty was pretty funny. He was almost like the bumbing idiot comic relief, but without the "idiot". Good stuff. I hope we see more of his little buddy in the future too. Shut up! I mean that little alien guy. :p

    Mr. Sulu

    John Cho didn't get much to do, but I'm glad he's there in the role and the audience loved his sword action. That's about it. I mean it's John Cho, so I can't complain.

    Pavel Chekov

    I actually liked Anton Yelchin as Chekov. He really had some presence as the Russian navigator.

    Uhura

    Oh my god! Zoe Saldana was hot, sexy and sophisticated as Uhura. I love this new Uhura. She was fantastic. They really infused some life into her.

    The Villain

    I liked Bana's performance as Nero and although I have no real issues with the character, it's pretty clear that he won't go down as one of the great villains of Trek. He's like another Dr. Soran.

    Christopher Pike

    Bruce Greenwood was good as a tough, no nonsense captain, but I would have preferred Ray Liotta as Pike. What a missed opportunity. Did they even try to get him?

    The Other Characters

    I can't end this post without mentioning Captain Robau. They did a good job of giving him and his ship, the Kelvin a life of their own in the brief time we got to see them in action.

    Old Spock was good too. It was nice to see Leonard Nimoy back. Who knew that the Next Generation would come and go and then we'd see Nimoy again as Spock? That hit me as I was watching. I also liked how substantial his role was. I thought we'd only see him in a cameo.

    In Closing... That's all for now. I liked it. Don't know if I'll see it again at the theatre though.

    A Note About the Poll

    I'll miss seeing how people voted, but I thought it was better to leave the poll anonymous. This is a big movie and this forum isn't as intimate as the others. I didn't want people (especially possible newcomers who registered just for this movie) to feel intimidated about voting. Sure there could be some abuse, but that's just the price of anonymity. Looks like people have been good about it so far though.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  15. Captain Fine

    Captain Fine Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Loved Chris Pine as Kirk. Love Karl Urban as McCoy. Scotty was good too. Loved Scotty's little pet. Sooo cute.

    So sad about Vulcan and Spock's mom. The most shocking/saddening thing about the movie.

    I DID like that they SPECIFIED that this is all in an alternate timeline. I'm kinda iffy about it, but it does give them a whole world of stuff they can do. No limits anymore. Anyone can die. Planets can be destroyed. Anything! And it's refreshing isn't it?

    Rated it Excellent by the way!
     
  16. firefox390

    firefox390 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Here is my review of the film.

    What I really liked:

    1) The opening 15-20 min scene with the Kelvin was F***ing SENSATIONAL!!! That alone merits this film to an automatic spot on my top 3 for best Trek films ever.
    2) Special effects were amazing: e.g.: The Enterprise going to warp and phasers bouncing around at bullet speed…genius!
    3) I love the humor: e.g.: Kirk taking the Kobayashi Maru exam was hilarious.
    4) The design of the Enterprise (e.g.: I love the look of the bridge, sickbay and the engine room…makes Voyager look 22nd century)

    Sorta okay (I can live with it):

    1) Characterization of Nero was a bit too predictable of a Trek villain.
    2) It seems a bit awkward to see Spock behaving more of a human than a Vulcan: It didn’t feel comfortable to me, because of the way we are used to seeing Spock in TOS; but I understand that they were trying to introduce a younger Spock with a vulnerable, humanistic side of him that we haven’t seen before using a similar formula that worked successfully for the Batman prequels and Casino Royale.
    3) I have absolutely no problem with the Spock-Uhura relationship; however, it would have helped to know HOW Spock fell in love with Uhura just so that we can understand why he felt the way he feels.

    What upsets me:


    1) Whenever an event unfolds, I “think Trek”: Kirk’s rise from being a suspended cadet to Captain was an extreme leap…not that I’m jealous.
    2) Vulcan was destroyed?!! If anything seriously undermines my opinion of this film it is this. WTF!!!
    3) Another minute of hearing Chekov’s accent and I would have left the theater.

    Final thoughts:


    It’s been three hours since the movie finished, and all I can say is that I feel extremely overwhelmed with what I saw. I love the new, sexy, “hip” look to Star Trek and with the $150M budget they did an outstanding job. The pace of the film was a bit too quick and I felt that it weakened the development of the characters – in some ways, 207 minutes was too short. The characterization of Kirk as the brash, arrogant and care-free cadet was a great portrayal, but the promotion to captaincy was too ridiculous.

    Grade: 7.5/10
     
  17. arch101

    arch101 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Location:
    10 miles west of the Universal Hub
    OK, I have seen it. First opening day I've been to since 1986 (I went to opening day for TMP, TWOK, TSFS and TVH) Glad I did. Movie was great! I'll need to see it again, but I was smiling from ear to ear when the end credits rolled, and that means I had a really good time. It's a keeper. I just don't see what the haters see to hate. It falls in (just) behind TMP on my list. I may like it even more upon repeat viewings. If you're a Trek fan in even a remote way, run out and see this film this weekend.
     
  18. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    I want to say one other thing... I've never been to a movie that got 6 rounds of applause.

    1st Round: After the Kelvin teaser when "STAR TREK" appeared on the screen.

    2nd Round: When we saw the Enterprise for the first time.

    3rd Round: When Sulu whipped out his sword.

    4th Round: When Spock appeared.

    5th Round: At the beginning of the closing credits.

    6th Round: When Gene & Majel's names appeared at the end of the credits. This was from a few people who stayed to watch 'til the end of the credits.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    That's why it's so bad.
     
  20. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Yeah, it is sad about Vulcan. Gutsy, but sad. Also, they didn't make good use of Winona Ryder.