The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Although I have my own issues with Leonard Nimoy's performance in this film, I must say that I always found it to be a very believable and fascinating (no pun intended) arc for Spock's character to grow from a man who is essentially trying to compensate and make up for his human half (and in a way being more Vulcan than any full-blooded Vulcan) (TOS) into a man who has accepted his human half (TUC, TNG). The Spock we see in this movie has now arrived at a moment in his life where he finally seems to cherish his mixed heritage and is benefiting from both Vulcan logic and human emotionalism.

    So, in a way the writer's really nailed Spock's character in this movie. At least that's how I understood it. :)
     
  2. Eddie Roth

    Eddie Roth Commodore Commodore

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    Repost from a closed thread from me as well:

    Actually, I've been trying to make a review-ish post all day, but I still don't know where to start. This being a completely new beginning, everything being new, there are just so many things you might want to mention.

    Two things come to mind right away, small things that everybody seemed to criticize in advance that I ended up loving: First, engineering. I think it's only the people who KNOW they filmed it in the Budweiser plant that think it looks like a brewery. I did know too, but unlike some I was able to forget my knowledge of the film's production and be absorbed by it. And I thought that gritty and industrial feeling it gave added heaps and heaps of realism and urgency to those scenes and the Enterprise as a ship I can believe could really happen in that future. It fit the new look of this universe. Which brings me to another point I enjoyed tremendously:

    Crowd scenes
    . Finally, someone injected some scope into Starfleet. The assembly of the cadets, their deployment to the fleet, and in general scenes with people aside from the main characters actually doing something!

    My second point is Sarek. Can't understand the criticism of Ben Cross. I thought he did a very good job of making that old asshole likable. He was a good casting choice for a certain resemblance to Zachary Quinto, so I never doubted Cross in the role. And he got some of the deepest character moments, early on with child Spock and then their discussion of Amanda later on. Beautiful.

    More random thoughts:

    - I'm glad Pike survived. I want to see more of him.
    - The Kelvin intro was amazing. Never was a space battle more intense and brutal, yet emotionally wrenching at the same time.
    - Chris Pine is the single best casting choice in the film. Blue eyes or not, he oozed Shatner in so many moments big and small, a tremendous source of joy for me in the film. Perfect lead.
    - The warp speed sound effect is awesome. BOOOOOM!!! ;) Yowza.

    And I'm not concerned as some folks round here seem to be about the holy "canon". A reboot was really the only way for Trek to go on. The term "reboot" implies change of established franchise lore, going back and starting over. It was a nice and elegant move on the writers' part to throw those canon junkies a bone by tying it in with the previous continuity, so I find the outrage on this BBS here today shameful and petty. I think of the many exciting unknowns this new universe has, and when the Enterprise begins its five-year mission at the end (nicely illustrated by the credits by the way) it finally feels some sense of wonder and mystery has been restored to a fictional universe in which for the past 15 or 20 years, going into space was neither a mission, nor a calling or an adventure, but simply a job. Now I hope that if we're so lucky to get another film, it will show us the strange new worlds that Delta Vega and the Narada so intriguingly hinted at, but couldn't explore at length because of the usual origin story concerns that also made Batman Begins slightly mechanical.

    That would be my one gripe with the film, and another is that sometimes the writers went a little overboard with the references and the character catchphrases. The "I have and always shall be your friend" line, well meant though it was, didn't feel right in the context of its scene. Things like that made the film a little too self-conscious for me in parts. I'm also not the hugest fan of either Uhura or her relationship with Spock. Somehow that feels icky to me.

    But altogether, I enjoyed the hell out of the film. Kirk's verve, Spock's internal conflict, the difficult relationship between the two resulting in their coming-together to board the Narada (a fine moment when Spock called Kirk "Jim" for the first time on the Jellyfish), the sheer screen presence of Leonard Nimoy, the nostalgic humor wrought from Chekov's accent, the fast-paced action and gorgeous FX photography... What's not to love? Star Trek hasn't been this dynamic since TOS for sure.
     
  3. Eddie Roth

    Eddie Roth Commodore Commodore

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    Right. Which is also kind of the point of Spock's whole arc in the film (I mean both Spocks as one person in this case.) Effectively we see all of Spock's life in the movie, sans the deleted baby scene. From the young Spock who's kind of a prick, especially since we are asked to root for Kirk, and who probably is as antagonistic towards Kirk because Kirk is the quintessential human... with all his impulse control issues and his emphasis on the gut - which Spock possesses as well, but suppresses because he has suffered for it in his childhood. Then to the Spock who, after his mother's death gets a sense of what it must be like for Kirk - who grew up without a father (who was incidentally killed by the same person as Spock's mother.) Their cooperation begins which we will hopefully see in a sequel become the deep friendship we know. And then you have Old Spock who has finally decided that he is unique and that this being "a child of two worlds" should be celebrated, not bemoaned. A lesson he learned, by the way, in TMP, after which he became a lot more relaxed, IMO. Nimoy's Spock here is the ultimate resolution to Quinto's Spock's dilemma.

    A not-too-shabby piece of sci-fi character writing, I'd say.
     
  4. xan82

    xan82 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Either that or Nimoy has lost his touch... felt that way to me big time. He seemed almost a cartoonish caricature of the strong performances we have seen before. He seemed in no way bothered that the timeline had changed, happy to let Kirk go off and do his own thing with absoluitly no interest in getting back his ship and stopping nero himself, or even using the ship and the "red matter" to time travel and prevent billions of vulcans romulans from being killed, as well as both planets.
    wtf?
    And we are supposed to believe this guy is spock? Appart from looking like Spock, there was nothing of spock about him.
     
  5. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    Disclaimer: Always more of a TNG/DS9 fan, though I enjoyed TOS to, particularly the second and sixth films.

    In brief: Excellent, a few nerdy caveats that won't bother normal people in the slightest aside.

    Cast: Going into this, I was sold on most of them; Urban as McCoy and Pine as Kirk were the ones I was wondering about, particularly the latter, because Kirk is so interwined with Shatner's acting style, something I can't see anyone imitating successfully (or even wanting to, really). Both of them turned out great; Pine's more "naturalistic" Kirk worked great. By contrast, Urban's mimicking of Kelley's acting style was a bit mannered on occasion, but I liked him. Quinto, obviously, looks to have been cloned from Nimoy specifically for the purpose of playing Spock. The others had varying degrees of stuff to do. Saldana as Uhura (who, after 40 years, gets a first name in canon) was great; Cho as Sulu was mostly just sort of there; Pegg as Scotty (introduced rather late in the proceedings) was hilarious. I was disappointed in the road they went with Chekov; in contrast to Kirk, where they dropped the ham, Yelchin goes whole-hog with a ridiculous fake accent. Chekov's quite competent here, arguably much more useful than he ever was originally, but he's not a serious character.

    Oh, and Leonard Nimoy's still got it.

    Special Effects: Very much liked them, particularly the more complicated weaponry. All very well done. You could see the budget at work here, something past films generally have only had in parts.

    Nerdy Quibbles: Both of these fall under things that were nagging nerdy quibbles with the original run of series that they didn't do something about here:

    1) The incredible overrepresentation of humans in Starfleet. In the past, that's been a conservation-of-makeup-budget thing; here, though, with so much moolah at their disposal, you've still got 10 humans for every one token alien, and in the crowd scenes at Starfleet Academy they could pretty much all be humans.

    2) The extreme defencelessness of Federation worlds. If you suddenly magicked a battleship into existence in 1901 and had it bombard Cherbourg into rubble, and then turn and head for London, I would expect that the Royal Navy would have more at its disposal than a single dreadnought between Cherbourg and the imperial capital. And, further, the lack of any planetary defences.

    9.5/10

    Oh, and you know who loves this alternate reality? Christopher Pike.
     
  6. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    You mean first name, don't you? ;)
     
  7. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, supposedly there were planetary defenses. On Earth at least.
    That was the whole purpose of Nero interrogating Pike.

    To get info and access to bypass them
     
  8. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, and I suppose I should mention the villain: Eric Bana as Nero is pretty forgettable, but then, there have only been three really good Trek film villains. He's workable, but nothing more.
     
  9. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek: Crisis On Infinite Planets
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She had this first name in some of the books, such as "Uhura's Song" published in 1987. Kudos to J.J. for using this name.
     
  11. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I COMPLETELY AGREE.

    And I loved the film, LOVED IT. The only blah thing was Nero IMHO. No personality, no presence, just a thug. No dramatic tension (just watched Balance of Terror the other night..). Nothing particularly Romulan about him. Now I did want to know who is this band of renegade Romulans, why are they tattooed.. but Nero himself was really, nothing. Kind of like Darth Maul, just an attack dog.

    I also wish they had spelled it Niro. Why use the name Nero? Kind of weak.

    But I do think that the villain of the film was really Nero's intensely terrifying ship and Nero was kind of secondary, the button pusher. Though of course it would have been a better film to have a villain that was actually interesting it wasn't really necessary as the struggle was with the ship, the drill, the black hole.
     
  12. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    That's what Roddenberry told Nichols her name was, and so it got into books and such, but those aren't canon.
     
  13. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes I know the books aren't canon, the point is JJ chose to use a name already known in the fandom rather than just making something up. This is good.
     
  14. indianatrekker26

    indianatrekker26 Captain Captain

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    i just got back from it. i feel like i got off a roller coaster. what a ride. im still letting it sink in. only thing that urked me was spock/uhura. little out of left field. i about teared up at the end with nimoy talking and then hearing the original theme.
     
  15. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    You know, if there is one let-down for me in this movie, then it's that we didn't get to see more of this new alien. I think that's one of the nicest, coolest looking alien makeup's we got in this movie (and in the franchise as a whole).

    [​IMG]

    But I am somewhat disappointed that (apart from a really nice close-up on the bridge, which is totally becoming my new avatar when I get the DVD :D) we didn't get to see more of her/him/it. I don't know, I guess I just expected the alien to have a line or two. But sadly, no.

    Does anyone know the name of this alien character? Or the actress playing it? Is there anyone who has seen some background images where one can study the makeup in more detail? I'd love to see them! :)
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And how about the female alien doctor in the shuttle when Kirk was being born? With the HUGE eyes?? That was very well done.
     
  17. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

    Re: Holy shit @ how good it was

    INCREDIBLE...

    I'm overwhelmed with a multitude of emotions...

    Definitely THE BEST Star Trek movie ever made...

    But...

    I'm also Devastated...


    There's so much... Changed...


    There's TWO TREK UNIVERSES NOW AND FOREVER...

    ...and I fear that the one I've grown up with...,

    ...have loved and supported for over Forty Years...,

    ... will be lost by the wayside from this point on...

    The thing is... I'm not sure yet if that's good or bad...


     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  18. T'Grinch

    T'Grinch Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    Well, at last I have seen it.

    Surprisingly, it was a grand slam. Abrams et al hit it out of the park.

    Random thoughts as they come to me:

    - Casting. It was all good. I felt Ben Cross made a superb Sarek. We can't have Mark Lenard, so this was the next best thing. He nailed Sarek. I was as intrigued by new Sarek as I was by Lenard Sarek. Well...almost.

    Quinto was the perfect Spock.

    Even Chekov's cheesy accent was perfectly in keeping with the original series. I rolled my eyes now like I did back then.

    Was Faran Tahir a bad-ass captain or what?

    Drill rig scene. Three men are going down; Kirk, Sulu and unknown man. All together now, WHO is NOT coming back? :lol:

    - Surprises. To my regret, I had figured the vast majority of the story with the exception of Amanda's fate. I tried very diligently to avoid spoilers as best I can, but I guess in doing the news, I just had too many pieces of the puzzle and I was able to assemble it. Damn it. So there were no big surprises for the most part. I wasn't sure of Vulcan's ultimate fate, whether there would be a partial reset or not, but I did know it would go ka-BOOM!

    - The story. I could suspend disbelief and accept it. I figured I'd have a real problem with the alternative timeline going forward. I will confess, I'm heartbroken over the fate of Vulcan. I had hoped that part at least will be reset. I've always been emotionally invested with the Vulcans and Romulans and to see Vulcan gone, well just :(

    - Romance. I liked it.

    Come to think of it, after the events of the Kelvin, the whole shebang went to an alternate timeline. So the original timeline still exists. I guess, therefore, that I can live with it. In that timeline, we get TOS-ENT and Vulcan exists. Romulus will be destroyed though. Damn. I can't catch a break. :p One or the other.

    In this timeline, who knows the future? But I think it will be an interesting ride and I enjoyed the movie and characters enough that I'm willing to go along with them. In all fairness, the only way it could continue forward was to have something like this happen.

    One thing about our theater. We had perhaps eight people there at the first showing.
     
  19. indianatrekker26

    indianatrekker26 Captain Captain

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    Re: Holy shit @ how good it was

    i know how you all feel, im burnt out. i cant believe how much my adrenaline was going watching that. Star trek felt so fresh and new again. congrats to JJ.
     
  20. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Neither of the two films that have used the Romulans (this and Trek X) have really brought what makes them, well, Romulan, to the screen. Nero could have been Klingon or, really, any race. It's particularly interesting to consider in light of Abrams' past creation, Alias, the premiere TV spy drama of the 21st century. If there was anyone who I'd like to see do a really twisty, devious Romulan villain, it'd be him.

    Oh, also, in terms of fridge logic, Nero is really just wasting loads of time with that drill (though, since he's basically invincible against the ships of this era, perhaps he just feels like taking his sweet time, like the aliens in Independence Day). There doesn't seem any reason why the Red Matter has to be drilled to the core of the planet, which is what he takes time to do; just squirt a few dropps into the atmosphere and the effect would seem to be the same.
    I immediately thought of Ensign Ricky in Family Guy (for all its lameness, those cutaway gags do occasionally nail their targets).

    After he got sucked into the flame jet, the guy in the seat behind me actually said "Oh, those redshirts."