The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Technically, the roots of the relationship are in TOS with Leila Kalomi, where Spock abandoned a relationship in his youth for his career. Chapel was just an extension of that decision and NuUhura is just this universe's Leila rather than this universe's Chapel. What's clear is that he was headed to do the same to NuUhura (already being nervous about the implications of their relationship in the movie). Whether the destruction of Vulcan and Amanda will change that arc is something the sequel will have to explore.

    I'm more worried that NuKirk's risk taking habit has had no time to mature before being given command of a starship, coupled with his frightening belief in his own opinions to the point of not only ignoring advice but also the orders of superior officers. Interestingly, the writers have indicated that the speed of his promotion is something that they intend to explore based partly on fan commentary.
     
  2. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    How is it "forbidden" due to his nature? Sarek loved and married 2 humans. . .

    Chapel had a crush on Spock that he totally resisted. . .he's in the midst of Pon Farr (mate or die) and he throws soup at her? Dude, there was no there there. . . plus, Chapel's story is that she was searching for her fiance. . .and found him with the androids. . . and then suddenly she is in love with Spock. . . no wonder he didn't want her. . . :rolleyes:

    Seriously though. . .there are little hints that Spock and Uhura were at least attracted to each other throughout TOS. . .the "first inter-racial kiss" scene was originally intended for Spock and Uhura, and Shatner demanded that it be re-written for him. . . Spock says: "And Uhura, whose name means freedom. 'She walks in beauty like the night...' " You don't use one of the most romantic poems in the English language as a metaphor for someone unless there is an attraction there. . . plus he teaches her the kathyra (she asks him in a deleted scene from "Elaan of Troyius" http://www.startrekhistory.com/DS1.html) and we see her playing it in a later episode. Plus he's always the one who picks her up when the ship shakes. . .they ALWAYS had chemistry. . . and now. . .it's canon. . . :p

    ~FS
     
  3. Anticitizen

    Anticitizen Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not 'forbidden' in the sense that someone else was stopping him. More like, 'self-censored'.

    I wasn't even thinking of that episode... I was thinking of 'The Naked Time', actually.
     
  4. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    As Paul6 said earlier in the thread, even in the TOS Spock had at least one love affair (with Leila Kalomi) which, according to the episode, took place 6 years before the episode. Coincidentally, this would be about the same time that ST09 takes place. . . now here's the fun part. . . because the Enterprise launches later in ST09 than it did in TOS, Spock (and Pike) are teaching at the Academy instead of in the middle their 11 year mission, so Nu!Spock may not have even met Leila, but he meets Uhura at least 9-10 years before he does in TOS, at a time when he was open to relationships. . .so, there is no 'self-censoring' and no real contradiction with the TOS.

    The "Naked Time" only proves that Christine has feelings for Spock, and that he is sorry -- not because he doesn't have feelings, because his next scene obviously shows that he does (crying because he never told his mom that he loves her and all) -- that he does not (not can not) return her feelings, because he doesn't like her in the same way...the virus stripped him of his emotional control, if he had in any way, shape or form wanted Christine, he would have gone back to her (see the spores in "This Side of Paradise)...

    ~FS
     
  5. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    There doesn't appear to be any indication in "This Side of Paradise" to suggest that "... even in the TOS Spock had at least one love affair (with Leila Kalomi) ...". Certainly nothing of the sort that NuSpock and NuUhura have. If anything existed it seems to be completely one-sided at least in terms of displayed emotions. Indeed the evidence confirms that Spock's behaviour is no, or very little different, six years earlier, to what its is in TOS.
     
  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    6 years prior? Around about Ponn Farr time? I suspect Leila just woke up after a fabulous all-nighter to a formal 'Dear John' letter.
     
  7. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure amok time was Spock's first Ponn Farr
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was. But that doesn't mean younger Vulcans don't get a strange tingling in their knickers every seven years prior to it. :techman:
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yup and we know from Voyager that holobabes just don't scratch that itch.
     
  10. Anticitizen

    Anticitizen Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Incidentally, that was the title of Vic Fontaine's second album.
     
  11. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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  12. darthvincor

    darthvincor Commander Red Shirt

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    Kirk's bogus adventure

    I just need to get this off my chest, it's been bugging me for ages.

    I don't like what Abrams has done to Star Trek.

    Abrams is a franchise slayer: first Star Trek, now on to Star Wars.
    The man is a great treatment writer, but his creative works tend to implode after a while (Lost, Alias, Star Trek movies)

    I fell asleep during Into Darkness, and only vaguely recall what happened, so I won't say anything about it.
    Except that Spock, in no universe, even in a infinite amount of alternate universes, would ever yell 'Kaaaaaaaaaaahn!'.

    But the first Abrams Star Trek. Holy cow.

    That opening scene. Kirk's dad has to be a hero too. No one else could've rammed that ship into the other ship. No helmsman, no auto pilot.
    And he just stays alive long enough to name the baby Jim. How dramatic. Crying and everything, in this overly constructed scene.
    Message: heroism is genetic.

    And then Jim is shown again. He's a kid now. He has stolen a car, and drives towards a cliff, only to yell in frustration when the cliff nears. Did he forget his car couldn't fly? Or was he hoping the earth would magically form a bridge over the canyon? Did he not know there was a canyon there? Was he seriously hoping to outrun the police?
    Message: he's a rebel at early age already.
    A second dimension has been added to the character. Awesome, we're a few minutes in, and 2 dimensions already.

    And then Kirk is further explained and glorified. Encounters with women, cheating on tests.
    But still only two dimensions. hmmm.

    And then Spock has to be made 'upset'. Lets see, what would make Spock upset.... I know! His mother and his planet blow up. That ought to do it. Such subtle and nuanced writing.

    Now for some more characters.
    Chekov: Russian accent, done. No more depth needed.
    Sulu: Gotta be a Sulu at the helm. Even though this is an alternate universe, with Vulcan gone(!) for example, all the same chaps end up on board.
    Uhuru: wow, the character has been expanded. No longer is she just the switch board operator, she now is Spock's lover.
    Scotty: He's still from Scotland. He has common sense, and is decent. Amazing how they found the time to add a few dimensions to this side character.
    Bones: southern accent + southern gallantry, done.
    Old Spock is there: alternate universe, same old Old Spock.
    The characters need no further story or depth. It is a Kirk glorification, after all.

    Kirk also never goes beyond 2 dimensions: Hero, rebel.

    And then there is Nero. Another shallow and pointless star trek movie villain. So consumed with anger is he, that he learns to travel through time, and is intent on blowing up Vulcan, to get back at Spock. Who comes up with this nonsense? You have greatly wounded me, therefore, I will blow up your home planet. (fine, absorb into singularity)
    And his name... Romulus, Remus, centurions and now Nero. How unimaginative. We should count ourselves lucky his family members Tiberius, Claudius and Augustus weren't there too.

    In the end Kirk saves the day. He was after all a hero from birth on already.

    And Kirk and his sidekicks go on to more adventures, in a 23rd century ship that has actual cooling pipes, transparent too, with water, and a release vent, just in case someone ends up in there. (a la Charlie and the Chocolate factory)

    So totally cool, dude!
     
  13. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    Since there's not really a clear topic for discussion here—your post is more a review-type blog entry about a four-year old movie than it is a thread-starter—I'll move this to the Grading & Discussion thread for the 2009 Star Trek, where there may be found similar posts about that film.
     
  14. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    It's valid to say you don't like Abrams contributions, but in no way is it rational to say that he "slayed" the Star Trek franchise. In order for him to have done that, it would have had to have been alive to begin with. Between Enterprise and Nemesis, it was dead as dead could be.

    As for Star Wars, I doubt he could do worse than Attack of the Clones if he tried.
     
  15. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    Well, if you look at this page (link) and scroll down a bit to look at the 'adjusted for inflation' section, Star Trek 2009 IS the top grossing film; and the only films that (again adjusted for inflation) grossed more than ST:ID were ST:TMP and STIV:TVH.

    So, sorry, the Abrams films did quite well for the franchise from a Box Office perspective. If anything, ST:Nem (after inflation adjustment) really 'slayed' the franchise from a Box Office perspective.
     
  16. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    Actually TMP is the top-grossing movie in adjusted dollars by the worldwide numbers, though it's close. Gross is kind of useless for measuring box office success though; though overall obviously the Abrams movies did fine at the box office. Interestingly in terms of profitability it's STID and not ST09 that ranks second (ST09 comes in fifth behind TVH and TWOK).
     
  17. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    Three points:

    (1) Michael Hinman is a pretty flimsy excuse for a journalist. I'm surprised you only found one error with his reporting.

    (2) Trying to determine profitability without knowing about all kinds of ancilarry revenue streams, the studio's arrangement with exhibitors, and the actual (not publicized) production (as well prints and advertising) budget means these numbers have to be taken with a few grains of salt, no?

    (3) Acknowledging that we'll never have all the information I mentioned in point number two, what source did you use to calculate your figures (or did you just draw from Hinman's article, with more correct figures for STID?).
     
  18. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    You have already voted in this poll.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    For certain! :techman:

    Correct.
     
  20. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Kirk's bogus adventure

    There's also cable/TV rights and DVD/BluRay sales which form a larger proportion of sales from movies in the last 10 years than they would for say TMP.