The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
    18.9%
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Might sound rude but not really worth going to see the movie again just to see that. I'll most likely wind up with the DVD so I can view it then.
     
  2. unimatrix7

    unimatrix7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just got back from seeing it.

    Awesome.

    I'll collect my thoughts and write something a little more verbose in the coming days, but that'll do for now :)
     
  3. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

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    yeah that was a nice touch.
     
  4. Quark's Lobe

    Quark's Lobe Commander Red Shirt

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    *** Copying over my review last week from the original spoiler thread:

    I had the pleasure of getting to watch the movie last night at a Denver advance/press screening. A few random observations:

    - First off, I absolutely loved the movie. Yes, I was bummed when I found out (ahead of time) about Vulcan. But I'm telling you, Vulcan's destruction absolutely gives this film the emotional impact and gravitas it needs and elevates this movie so far above every other Trek film in the last couple of decades. I'm angry that Vulcan got destroyed, but I'm not angry with JJ, Orci, etc. On the contrary, I applaud them for their boldness. Instead, I'm angry with Nero. And isn't that the whole point? I CARE about what happened in this movie - it has resonance, it MATTERS. When Kirk and Sulu are trying to take out the drill, I'm actually sitting there hoping against all odds that they can succeed. When they don't, it sucks. It sucks that Vulcan is gone. But it also means the events of this film have meaningful implications. No lazy reset button. And Star Trek is better for it.

    - With one exception, every actor was fantastic. I'll stop short of saying that Chris Pine now "owns" the role that William Shatner originated, but I will say that Pine was absolutely wonderful in the part and will very likely vault himself to superstardom as a result. His role as a developing Kirk involves a lot more physical and subtle comedy than Shatner had to do, and Pine knocks it out of the park. Quinto is equally brilliant as he struggles to balance the emotion and the logic. Nimoy is heartbreaking as Spock, in a good way. Saldana brings Uhura to life in a way that I've never seen before. Her very unexpected romance with Spock is great, as you see her dancing around his emotional control problems. That said, Spock never takes anything out on Uhura. She's basically his rock, it seems. Urban is like watching DeForest reincarnated - 'nuff said. Yelchin actually made Chekov likable again, which is a high praise from me as I was not formerly a Chekov fan. Yelchin's wide-eyed excitement is infectious. Simon Pegg was the big surprise for me. I expected his Scotty to absolutely pale in comparison to Doohan, but Pegg was fricking hilarious! Definitely a slightly "goofier" Scotty than I'm used to seeing, but Pegg just nailed the excitable nature of Scotty. I'm sure his little assistant will annoy some folks (particularly when he shows up on the Enterprise at the end as a crewman, apparently), but I thought the little guy was awesome. Especially when he seemed to tear up when Scotty leaves him earlier in the film. John Cho lacks the bass rumble of Takei, as many have stated, but he also brings a new badassedness and overall humor to the character. In fact, their initial moment leaving spacedock almost seemed like a bit of a nod to Galaxy Quest, when the helmsman didn't seem to know what he was doing for a sec. But all doubt about Sulu's abilities is erased by the end of the film, and his swordfight atop the drill was, in a word, awesome. Ryder brings a quiet dignity to Amanda. Would have liked to see a bit more screentime for her, and I'm sorry that the baby Spock stuff was cut. That said, when her section of the cliff begins to fall just as the transporter tries to take hold, it's absolutely gut-wrenching. That scene really stayed with me, particularly when Spock rematerializes on the transporter pad, hand outstretched, shock etched on his features. Bana is interesting as Nero. His character seems a bit all over the place, sometimes very formal, sometimes almost comically casual with how he addresses people. But 100% scary when he's mad. The only weak point for me was Ben Cross as Sarek. For some reason, he just didn't do it for me, lacking the deeper qualities that Mark Lenard could convey in the role with a mere look.

    - Architecturally, the hanging buildings on Vulcan were visually interesting, descending down from various rock formations. The Vulcan training pods, where young Spock has a fight, were a little "Attack of the Clones-ish" for my taste, but okay.

    - I loved all the Kelvin stuff. Seeing George Kirk in action is well worth the wait, even if his final dialogue with Winona is a little soap opera-ish as it progresses. Also, the eyes of baby Jim's delivery nurse = pure weirdness. :)

    - I know the Klingon stuff got cut, but I was very surprised at the lack of well-known alien Federation races. I didn't see any Andorians, Tellarites, etc., though maybe I just missed them in the crowd scenes. The new aliens are great, some subtle, some very imaginative, but I would have loved a glimpse at more of the "classic" aliens.

    - The brief 2 minute scene that establishes Nimoy Spock's and Nero's history together is seriously waaaay too brief and could have used a lot more explanation for the average movie-goer. I had read the Countdown prequel comic series ahead of time, which I'm very grateful for, as Nero's history and motivations are so much better explained there. I think they did Nero a severe disservice in this film but not devoting a little more time to his backstory. Don't get me wrong - I want to watch Kirk and Company most of all (in other words, I don't want another Shinzon-style villain where he's being given more screentime than the main characters), but I do think they should have devoted just a bit more time to Nero to flesh him out. As it stands, his personality remains slightly unclear if you're going just by the movie.

    - I'd heard there was going to be lots of humor in the film, but I was pleasantly surprised that A) it actually WAS funny, and B) they were able to work in the funny moments in unobtrusive ways. Such as the looks on Kirk's and Scotty's faces when they witness Spock and Uhura kissing on the transporter pad. Or Kirk and Spock's quick conversation before they decide what to do about Nero at the end. And lots of little "physical comedy" bits that really played well. It's when they go the other extreme - Kirk's swollen hands, Scotty's trip through the engineering tubes - that the humor falls a bit flatter. That said, I'm sure some of the audience will still love that stuff too.

    - Love the new warp effect. I don't mean the warp tunnel itself, which I also like. I'm talking about watching a ship going into warp. It's literally like a gunshot. Very cool effect.
     
  5. The Super Brando

    The Super Brando Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. However, it's such a minor thing that it didn't deter me from enjoying the film at all. I mean, c'mon, it's a tiny nitpick.

    I think this is because the new Star Trek movie is a completely separate movie from TOS. The reason the Kelvin is bigger and different from TOS ships and all is because it's not pre-TOS. Despite the lip-service from JJ and the writers, this movie's universe doesn't diverge from the old universe at the Kelvin attack, because this movie's universe was never the same as the old one.

    I might be in the minority here, but it's pretty obvious this didn't take place before TOS and then it diverged, it was always a separate universe.

    Spock has no time-travel capability at all. The only reason he was thrown through time in the first place was because he was accidentally sucked into an accidentally created unstable time/blackhole.


    I'm actually kind of glad you didn't like it. We all know Star Trek has some crazy fans. But in order for it to move forward and increase in quality then it'll have to keep what's good from the past incarnation, while trying new and different things and separating from some of the ridiculous and retarded aspects. And that is unavoidabley going to upset the anals. So the fact that you are upset I think is a good sign for Star Trek.
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's certainly true. If the most conservative and inflexible segment of fandom was satisfied with the movie it would indicate that the producers have failed to bring enough new to it to rescue Star Trek from oblivion.
     
  7. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Yep, the warp jump is pretty good.

    Okay, I gave it an excellent. But would have preferred a grade between above average and that.

    For me (and I stress this is my opinion), Yelchin and Saldana didn't quite do it for me. They were good, but Saldana doesn't have Nichol's gravitas, and Yelchin, I dunno, just didn't seem to fit that well. But I an sure they'll work together better if/when they get to the next film.

    Now, Nero's beef. His world is gone. Uhhhhh, no, it isn't. It goes 125 years in the future of the time he finds himself in. If he hadn't messed things up in his timeline, he could have saved his world. Am I the only one (and my son, he raised it) thinking this? Of course, once he changed the timeline, there was no going back and his wif was lost to him, possibly. was lost to him, but still. He said it was about Romulus too. There was no way for Spock to time travel again and save Romulus, oaky, but there may have been answers rather than mindless destruction. From what I've heard of the Countdown sequence, some more of that needed to be incorporated, to give Nero a bit more depth, his motivations and his look were a bit too Shinzon for me.

    Lens flare, even on the CGI. :rolleyes: I said to my son on the way home that some fanboi will get a copy soon and edit out all the flare. :)

    Not sure about Spock watching Vulcan's destruction from Delta Vega.

    I didn't mind the DV creatures, they were something we haven't seen in Trek (though have in SW and PotC), and I quite liked the many alien species. Except for the guy at the bar, he seemed so sad, what with the long face and all... :D

    The effects were bloody marvelous. Particularly like the newe transporter effect.

    The characters and actors. I think the new guys, in the main took up the roles well (see above), especially Urban, Cho, and Pegg. I have minor reservations about Pine and Quinto, but nothing worth speaking about. Nimoy... was a little distracting. Were his teeth bothering him?

    What made the film for me - the teaser and Pike. The teaser was just bloody excellent, moving and action-filled, that classic thing of the personal moments in the middle of the epic action. Greenwood as Pike... man, I'd follow that guy anywhere! :)
    And right behind those two, the fight on the drill sequence, that was pretty well done too.

    The first shot of the ship, even though I'd seen photos, amde me go wow. Not sure about the all-white interior. From what I'd interpreted about trailers etc., I was sorta thinking Starfleet had ramped up ship production extensively because there was some Big Bad Threat out there that had taken out the Kelvin and some other places years earlier, which was why the shipos were bigger and better. But that's just me.

    StarMan, Kirkr didn't do it in three days, there was a caption, "Three Years Later", which was how long he said it would take him to graduate.

    Between you and me, I can't see Engineering needing all that kinda piping. But what do I know? I ain't that old yet. :)

    The little homages were good. The quotes. The Ceti Alpha eel. Pike in a wheelchair.

    I too was expecting some big kinda reset button. Sad Vulcan's gone, but also glad they didn't use the big red btn after all. Means things can change in the future from what we know.

    So many things I haven't thought through yet. I'm going to see it again at some point, will post more than.

    And don't pay attention to April. He may have got in for free, but he didn't check his prejudgement at the door. Same kinda word as prejudice.
     
  8. Dr. Jekyl

    Dr. Jekyl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I rather liked it. The reboot succeeds, hitting all the right notes. It has genuine heart. However, I feel like I'm almost mourning the series canon now. After this very strong showing, I don't think we'll get anything set in the old continuity - outside of the books - ever again. More movies with the New Kirk & Co, and maybe a new tv series set in the same time period in the new continuity.

    I am also utterly astonished that they didn't use the reset button for Vulcan. This, more than anything else, shows that the franchise is in new hands - probably better hands.
     
  9. TGTheodore

    TGTheodore Writer Admiral

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    I also loved the "red shirt" tradition continuing. When Kirk, Sulu and "other guy" (Olsen?) were in their sub-orbital jumpsuits, I immediately realized Olsen was doomed because his was red. GREAT bit!

    --Ted
     
  10. FlyingLemons

    FlyingLemons Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've just got back from seeing a "preview" screening - i.e. it opened a day early in the UK. I enjoyed it more than any of the TNG Trek films and dare I say it more than a few of the weaker TOS installments. I'm going to go and see it again some point as well.

    I'm not going to recap as this film will have been recapped so many times it's just repetition, but there are a few things:

    The Enterprise was brilliant - it managed to marry the look of the TOS ship and the later movie era ship to come up with something that resembled the old one, but yet looked new enough to be credible in a 2009 movie. Also the shots of it navigating the debris field left by Nero and coming out of the in the rings of the planet were beautiful. I don't care about the slight repositioning of the nacelles or proportions, simply put - this was the Enterprise. Generally the special effects were also way above the glorified TV series stuff we got with Insurrection and Nemesis, and it's always nice to see someone throw some serious money at Trek.

    Nero was a decent villain for an origin story. There have been far, far weaker villains in recent films such as the Son'a, and rather than having some highly technical masterplan involving extracting radiation from the rings of some planet, he just wanted to smash everything up. He never made any pretensions to having some grand design, although he did mention that he wanted to change the past so there won't be any Federation to compete with the Romulans. But then, Khan didn't really have much of a motive apart from "Kill Kirk" either...

    One thing they could have done though was put back the Nero/Klingons scene. I suppose it could have confused some, but I did feel that it would have been nice to see what Nero was doing for 25 years while waiting for Spock. Also, the backstory scene was short and to the point and served to provide the link for "those in the know", but also didn't muddy the story with wads of needless 24th Century information.

    Watching the film got me thinking about the entire "canon" issue - on the whole it proved a fair better viewing experience after they dumped most of the whole wider "universe" from the story. I went along with my girlfriend, who generally tends to ask questions like "What's the Dominion?" in response to characters talking about that in Insurrection and while not a big follower of Trek, likes to know what is being talked about. She didn't turn to me once during the film, and that was a good sign. It's perfectly enjoyable by both Trek fans and non Trek fans, which can only be good for the box office.

    And to be quite frank - the whole universe has gotten quite bloated when it comes to telling new screen stories while strictly adhering to "canon". Berman's idea was to tell a story of Kirk's ancestor who I doubt whether many would have cared about, mainly due to the fact he was scared of having a backlash from hardcore fans who can't take one change to their imagined "consistent" timeline. Jettisoning the bloat served the story well, and if this is the way of the future I can't wait to see more of it.
     
  11. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I got out of the theater a few hours ago. Working day, school day and at 14:00 and still the theater was half full. About 100 people, mostly young ones. Not bad

    Star Trek is a good movie and certainly one of the better Star Trek movies. It has heart, emotion, humor....
    I can't rate it excellent, but it is certainly above average and leaves great hope for more and better future adventures.

    Let's start with the "bad" stuff.
    I really think the movie would have greatly improved if it was at least 30 minutes longer. If the Spock Prime/Kirk mind melding scene had been cut and some of the plot of Countdown had been incorporated into the movie, along with a few scenes from Nero's Rura Penthe imprisonment.
    That would have also improved Nero's presence in the movie. Right now he has too few scenes and even though Bana does a good job he is not allowed to reach or even surpass Khan levels.
    Now I know this is not really a movie about the villain, that he is more of a device for our characters to meet, grow and come together but still...It could have been handled better.
    But trek has seen much much worse than Nero.

    That's my biggest complain really. There are are things that may have made me pause or that could have been done better, but they are not that big a deal or too nitpicky and not really worth the time right now.

    The good stuff ?

    The opening sequence. Beautiful, emotional...brought a tear to me eye.
    And Captain Robau was in there (yeap, he is badass). It couldn't be bad now, could it ?

    The cast was for the most part excellent. Pine, Quinto, Greenwood, Saldana, Pegg, Cho, Bana....
    But for me Karl Urban, even though he doesn't have too many scenes, was the best. I loved that guy as Bones.
    My only "problem" was Yelchin. His Russian accent and tone of voice really struck me in a bad way at first. But I have to say I really changed my mind and began to like the young guy more and more as the movie progressed.

    Many were afraid of the humor in this movie. I think it turned out mostly great. It wasn't out of place or incredibly silly. And many times did it bring a smile to my face.

    The special effects were very well done.
    The Enterprise was as fine a ship as I thought it was from the pictures, the Kelvin and the Narada too.
    And the infamous Delta Vega monsters were pretty nice (though the red spider thing didn't quite mesh with the environment on one brief occasion that i remember).

    What else ?

    Ah, music & sound.
    Fantastic..It was appropriate and present in all the right places. And I have to say the 2 (or was it 3 ?) instances where all sound stopped to convey the soundless environment of space, were incredibly effective.

    Engineering.
    Better than I feared I have to say.
    But still, it could use less pipes & tanks. Let's hope for the sequel.

    Uhura/Spock relationship.
    Very nicely handled overall. Though a little less transporter kissing and more staying at our bridge station would have been better :p

    Emmotional Spock.
    Very nicely handled as well.And understandable under the extreme circumstances of the story.

    Spock Prime.
    Nice to see Nimoy again. He was good.
    But I think this should be the end. Enough cameos, enough torch passings...The new guys should stand on their own from now on.

    Kirk's captaincy.
    I don't know. It did feel a bit rushed.
    Sure, he was brave and decisive and showed great leadership skills and potential. Since it had to be done in this film, maybe another time jump would have helped make it better.

    Reset button.
    Finally...The button has broken and hopefully it will never work again. :bolian:
    Actions and events have real consequences. What do you know...

    Cinematography.
    Could be a bit less shaky.I could see people having problems with it.
    The lens flares, with a couple of exceptions when they overwhelmed the screen entirely, were fine in my eyes.
    Certainly it was far from the worst as another thread/review around here suggests.

    Anyway, that's about all I can think of at this point. I'm sure more will come up as the discussion heats up.
    To sum up, this tomato is fresh despite the flaws. It certainly is the first Trek to have any chance of actually rejuvenating the franchise and bringing it finally into this century.
    I would like to see more of their adventures.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  12. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just saw it this afternoon a few hours ago

    Dire


    I could give a massive review/insight but this threads gonna get so clogged up it seems redundant as I certainly can't be arsed reading every single persons 10 paragraph opinions on it.
    Alls to say is I found the majority of it simply boring, and the rest just offensive to be frank in it's crapness.
    I know I'm gonna be one of the lone voices in this looking at the grading already, but it was dire, dire, dire

    I'll sum up my opinion in two words- not canon


    ps. oh yeah, that bit in the car- NOKIA. I nearly puked up a lung when I saw that
     
  13. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    Well, you're a ray of sunshine, your review, pic, and sig, all together. :) Normally, I'd let it slide, except for the 'not canon' comment.
     
  14. EJA

    EJA Fleet Captain

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    Wait a minute, Nero has Ceti eels?!! That'd be cool.

    No way could the USS Kelvin have a crew compliment of just over 800, not at this period of history. I know it's only a minor detail, but still a bit irritating IMHO. Probably best to just ignore it. Anyone know where I can get a really good look at the Kelvin uniforms?
     
  15. EJA

    EJA Fleet Captain

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    What other specific aspects of the film did you not like? Just curious.
     
  16. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    On the Kelvin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the original timeline, didn't Kirk grow up on a different planet or something? Isn't it possible the Kelvin was carrying people somewhere. Pike said he saved 800 lives, not 800 crew.
     
  17. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, yes and no.
    If I remember Nero calls them Centauri or something similar. And he puts a big one in Pikes mouth.
    So it's probably not the same bug but does the same thing.

    i don't think there is a good picture online yet
     
  18. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, Tarsus IV
     
  19. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Then why did Kirk tell Gillian he was from Iowa?
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course it's canon. The phrase you're looking for is "I didn't like it."