The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor....

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Emperor-Tiberius, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Above all, I fear I won't be looking at the special and think "I so wish Christopher Eccleston was in this instead of John Hurt!"

    Sure, he's a great actor, but I am hoping that the Ninth's part was simply outsourced, in lack of better description, into the 10th and 11th parts, and not have Hurt's Doctor simply be the result of Eccleston's lack of involvement.

    But its Moffat, so... its possible.
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Based on the was it's been set up, I'm pretty sure John Hurt's Doctor would have been in the special regardless of if Eccleston showed up or not. Since he's not, it just means more to do for Tennant and Smith.
     
  3. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    The Telegraph quotes the costume designer in an article on the Prince of Wales' visit to the set today: "There was a gap between Paul McGann playing the Doctor and Christopher Eccleston, when we didn't see a regeneration, and John Hurt will fit into that gap. He is a past Doctor, not a future Doctor." Based on that, besides the set-up in "The Name of the Doctor" itself, it sounds like Hurt's Doctor was conceived of as a separate character rather than a replacement for another actor.
     
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Did I just read that correctly? Did they actually confirm that John Hurt is an incarnation between McGann and Eccleston?
     
  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    That's the way I read it, yes.
     
  6. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Well I'm glad we can finally put that one too bed.
     
  7. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Well, it officially sucks, IMO. Kinda takes away from both the Eighth and the Ninth.

    Also, would this have meant that there were originally gonna be four Doctors in the upcoming special, if Eccleston had agreed to come back? That'd have been nice, and good to know that his part wasn't basically overwritten.
     
  8. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    You're assuming facts not in evidence. All we know right not for certain is that Hurt's Doctor is between McGann's Doctor and Eccleston's Doctor.

    We don't know what Hurt's Doctor did. For that matter, we still don't know which Doctor fought the Time War. RTD's choice was Eccleston, fandom's choice has been McGann, and now people are assuming that it's Hurt because Hurt comes in between the last time we saw McGann and the first time we saw Eccleston and, oh yeah, the Time War comes somewhere in between the last time we saw McGann and the first time we saw Eccleston. It very well could be that "what I did I did without choice" has absolutely nothing to do with the Time War. If Hurt takes away from McGann and Eccleston, it's not because he's taking away from what they actually did, it's because he's taking away from what fans assumed they did (and meant).

    I'm not convinced at the moment that the 50th-anniversary special will have anything to do with the Time War. Which Doctor fought the Time War and what happened at The Moment strike me as questions fans would have (because they want the show's history to fit together and they like to spackle over gaps to make it join) that don't matter to the Not-We mainstream audience (because they just want to be entertained). Moffat likes throwing bones to the fans ("Every Dalek comes back!"), but that's often nothing more than a hook for a story that ends up far afield from those bones.
     
  9. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Truthfully, it shouldn't have anything to do with the Time War, because what he did there is no secret. Even Amy and, thus, Rory knew about it. My admittedly fanboy-ish reaction stems from the rumors that have beckoned the associated rumor - that it has to with the Time War.
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Good points about why Hurt's Doctor isn't likely related to the Time War, but I'm sure the War will feature in the 50th in some way. After all, season 7 part 2 had three direct references to the Time War, which is pretty significant since prior to S7.2 there have only been two really vague mentions of the Time War since Moffat took over. I'm sure that's building up to something even if it is a red herring regarding Hurt's Doctor.
     
  11. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    I think when all is said and done, when after the dust settles, Hurt's Doctor will become a temporal paradox, a Doctor that never was. In the end, Eccleston will remain the Ninth Doctor, Tennant the Tenth, and so on.
     
  12. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Whatever he did without choice could have been because Rassilion stuck that glove up his arse and used him like a puppet, or something less obscene, but still against his will.

    Also, whatever using the "moment" was about, could've aged #8 to the point of looking like John Hurt, after he was forced by Rassilon to do whatever he did.
     
  13. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    "What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace, and sanity."

    Based on the words he used, I don't think he was forced to do something against his will. It sounds more like the situation with the star whale in "The Beast Below" where there were only bad solutions and worse solutions. He even said after killing the star whale, he would have to take another name as he wouldn't be The Doctor anymore.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqSoRgqWeiw[/yt]

    Given that The Beast Below was his second episode after taking over from RTD, does this also imply that Moffat had been planning and laying the groundwork for this 50th anniversary story since 2010?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    I wouldn't go that far. More likely, Moffat had an idea of a dark Doctor who gave up the name for a while and the 50th ended up being the best opportunity to tell that story.
     
  15. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Too true. This particular season has been building up on the Doctor's darkness, too, especially in early episodes like Asylum of the Daleks and A Town Called Mercy.
     
  16. Sean_McCormick

    Sean_McCormick Captain Captain

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    It seems to me that this is a "reverse" view of Moffat's idea, that the word doctor means, what it means because of The Doctor's example, which we know he had expressed as a fan in the 1990ies.
     
  17. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    TNOTD would've been much better if Paul McGann had been standing there at the end - but then the same things had been said, that 8 did bad shit and is resented by the other incarnations.

    That way we still have the continuity of the correct number of Doctors, we get a resolution to McGann's Doctor and Moffat doesn't ruin the show any further.
     
  18. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Yeah but you also risk alienating the fans by taking a Doctor many had taken to their hearts (in audio format) and then turning him into a monster.

    "How dare Moffat ruin the 8th doctor blah blah blah..."
     
  19. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    Oh come on.
     
  20. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

    But was he a monster? It would make the character so feckin powerful for the first time in ages, explaining why he committed atrocities to end the war. I'm not saying go to the extent of having him lose the moniker of Doctor but the other Doctor's are clearly disturbed by what happened (although any of the incarnations would've been faced with the same situations would probably have acted the same).
     

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