The Official Deleted/Alternate Material Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by CaptainBearclaw, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks I like the Beats and the Shouting Premium Member

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    Maybe someone can either confirm or correct my memory of Star Trek 6 TVH. When they are at the court proceeding and Worf is defending them, I distinctly remember when it was shown in the theater a scene after it almost over where Bones asked Worf "When is it our turn?" and Worf tells him something like, "It happen already, that both sides go at the same time." Yet I have never seen this scene on any home release.
     
  2. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Um, if that turns out to be true it might be the only scene I can add to my Star Trek 6 list. I'm not adding any scenes that can be found in an official edit. I doubt it though.
     
  3. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    The Spock/McCoy alone portion of the officer's lounge at the end, where McCoy prompts Spock to respond with "we have not yet reached the final frontier." or words to that effect.
     
  4. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank you, treva. After this one I think I'm finished with the only interesting ones.




    P.S. I have no way of posting pictures, so could somebody help me with posting some pictures up here that illustrate some of the scenes I'm talking about? Your help would be much appreciated, as I'm intending this thread,a gain, to limit the need of traveling to various sites around the internet to get the information and pictures about these scenes. Thank you.;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Chapel meets Sarek just outside the Council Chamber and tells him he's not too late.
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    You got all the larger cuts--all that was left was individual lines cut here and there--which would never get seen in a deleted section because they are just too short--but interesting.
    That is the beauty of seeing the workprint--you get to see many tiny differences that you'd never see in a simple 'deleted section'
    I'd happily buy any future TWOK release that included either a deleted section or even better the workprint itself (obviously I prefer it in color--LOL)

    Other stuff from TVH was Sarek and Chapel in a turbo-lift just before his dramatic entrance.
    A brief exchange between Sarek and the Fed Pres after the klingon storms out,
    a scene where the surgeon asks "Why hasn't this man been prepped!" (acknowledging the fact Chekov hasn't yet had his head shaved for the brain surgery)

    By the way the scene with Sulu's great-grandfather was not shot at all--the child got stage fright and just as Nimoy had calmed him down his nutty stage-mother flipped out and started screaming at him and he froze up completely (from Takei's autobiography)



    That scene was in the script, the novel and perhaps the comic(?), but it was never in any version that was shown in theaters to the best of my knowledge.
     
  7. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks Grant. I really would like to see the full cuts of each Star Trek film, cause there's some great stuff they were forced to cut out. Thanks for the TVH lines by the way. Think I will be adding that TUC scene to my list, as it my be the ONLY thing on my list.
     
  8. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Oh no, TUC has the most stuff cut (equal to TSFS & TWOK in that respect)

    The briefing was 1/4 to 1/3 longer with lots of nice little bits cut.
    After Ent leaves dock there is another scene with Kirk/Valeris where he jabs her again for questioning his orders.
    The 'tour scene' mentioned in the transporter where Kirk & co. give Gorkon & co. a tour in the torpedo bay where it is CONFIRMED that Ent IS carrynig equipment for studying gaseous anomalies.

    Much longer (perhaps 2x) dinner scen where everybody starts arguing with everybody--lots of lost lines for Nichols, Doohan and Koenig.

    MUCH longer trial with a 2nd EARLIER questioning of Kirk and lots of great Chang lines and the earlier mentioned McCoy, "Is it our turn now?" and what must have been a classic Kelley delivery of "WE WERE FRAMED!" after the lead judge asks if they have anything to say.

    And lastly a longer intro for Martia, where she admits to being a smuggler--which after her true nature is revealed later she states, "It's why we make such good smuglers!"

    After that point there is some cut stuff, but not large chunks.
     
  9. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    God, I really kinda suck at this, don't I?
     
  10. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Not at all.
    I have just been taking fanatical notes on this stuff since May of 1983 when the longer version of TMP hit ABC. Really got revved up when the TWOK ABC cut hit on Feb 24, 1985 and never stopped since then.
    Owned all the scripts 2-6, read the making of novels, scoured books and mags for interviews and still phots, later the internet for video proof--even spent a full day of my vacation in Southern California watching the TWOK workprint!

    I don't know whether to be proud or ashamed to say i memorized the entire Khan, Chekov, Terrell eel scene from beginng to end (including all the cut lines from the script--which I later confirmed when I saw the workprint.

    "That's crazy........"

    Yes it is.
     
  11. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks I like the Beats and the Shouting Premium Member

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    I never read the script, novel or the comic. However I feel like I know I have seen it. You know what I mean, I wouldn't swear to it but it feels like a fact to me.
     
  12. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the kind words, Grant. I'm thinking of getting the scripts avaliable through Roddenberry.com. Just curious, what do you think of my completed TMP list. Anything I missed?
     
  13. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    I know what you mean and i wish it WAS floating out there because we'd be more likely to see it if it had appeared in SOME version of the movie as opposed to being set aside at the initial editing phase.

    A few more bits from TWOK that I did NOT see in the workprint............

    These must have been very early cuts because I HAVE seen stills of these scenes...........

    McCoy working on Chekov's ear as Ent heads towards the nebula--David is told to stay put.
    A bookend scene a couple of pages later where Chekov wakes up and demands to go to the bridge--David sneaks out of sickbay during this bit.

    Originally part of the "I chase him round the moons of Nibia.." scene was an earlier portion where Khan intergates Chekov on Genesis and gloats how Reliant is similar to Ent which Kirk let him study up on all those years ago. (This scene in it's complete form was originally much earlier in the movie and they probably cut it when they moved the latter portion to later in the movie.

    And stuff I didn't see in the workprint because the workprint at UCLA abruptly ends when Spock leaves to sacrifice himself.....

    The 'baby and the bomb' reprise of the baby as Genesis comes to life.

    Saavik saying over the intercom how beautiful Genesis is just as Spock dies (birth and death at the same time thing they were going for)

    An prologue and an epilogue to the funeral scene.

    More nice dialogue between David/Kirk in the cabin. When Kirk says, "I should be on the bridge." David stands up to him and says, "Are you running away from me?" Kirk replies, "I suppose I was."

    For those who are good a lip reading----they took David's "are you running" line and looped over it "can I talk to you" or something. But turn down the volume and read his lips he DOES say, "Are you running away from me?"
    They simply looped over it and cut Kirk's reply out.

    Meyer went to war and thank god won---when the studio wanted the ENTIRE Kirk/David scene cut!!!

    He later said it was Butrick's best scene in the movie.

    And lastly the bridge finale' scene, a tiny edited portion of which can be seen on the youtube clip with a portion of the 'Romulan heritage' clip.

    They looped over some of the dialogue in the bridge finale' clip to have Kirk say 'David Marcus' instead of 'my son' because of course they wanted to keep that secret till the movie came out.

    THE END
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    There are nice to own BUT---go to Trekcore and read them for free!!!!

    Just go to movies and then pick the movie you want and then scroll down and they have all the original uncut scripts there to read for free!!

    Facinating read and I'll bet you think most of the cut stuff was worth keeping. When you read it it seems that way, but when you see it as film you can see why they cut most of what they did.
    But i must say there are many bits and lines that fill in plot holes and are funny and witty and I think they should have kept.

    Now i will silently pray they will include thse scenes on some future home video release before I die of old age.

    Oh I just noticed.........as for TMP, that ironically is the movie I least know about the cuts scenes for. But most of what was cut ends up in 1 or more of the 3 versions of the movie....

    What I know isn't in any version is......

    the security guard zap
    Decker/Ilia in engineering at the end
    the alternate spacewalk of course
    the Nogura scene that was never shot

    the special Longer edition threw in so much stuff--good and bad-that it cleared the cutting room floor for the most part.
    I think they would have included the security guard zap if it had, had the completed FX!!!
     
  15. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, I just assumed you'd know if I'd missed anything.

    About the scripts, I must more enjoy having a physical copy to comb through. I own the complete comic collection Cd-rom and yet I'm still collecting Star Trek comic books. By the way, I love the extended version of TMP. I made a point of buying the laserdisc.

    I do still have a little bit to add there though. Nimoy originally ad-libbed a really funny line towards the end of the film, just cut for tone purposes.
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Was it the follow up to "Out there, thataway."

    where Spock replies, "A most logical choice captain."

    There was NO WAY Shatner was gonna let anybody else have the last line though!

    I had hard copies from 1989 to a few years ago when they got soaked in a hurricane, but by then I knew them by heart. I have printed out many pages from the internet since then, especially from TWOK after I saw the workprint.

    All my cellphone ringtones are cut lines from the workprint!!

    Khan has one cut line "Plague upon you all!!!!"----
    i reserve that one for people I don't like.

    And David had a line, "YOU DUMB BASTARD."---which I use for my boss. Hopefully he never calls me when i'm nearby! LOL.
     
  17. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Actually there was another take where he claimed to have stayed to protect the Enterprise from its erratic, human crew.

    Pretty funny, but it ruins the ending.

    Check out this page for less of a brief overview of cut footage:
    http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/scenes-cut-from-star-trek-the-motion-picture/

    So, was that David line when he was attacking Kirk with a knife in the original scene?
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly right! That's the exact point where the two versions of the fight diverge...

    In the cut we know, David says, "You..." and they cut out "...dumb bastard, we were still there! We heard their screams all the way to the transporter room!"
    They cut out the rest of his outburst and show the fightcontinue. Then......

    the re-shoot footage is inserted where Kirk quickly defeats David and walks to carol and says, "Is that david?"

    Implying that Kirk knew all along he had a son.

    In the original uncut version in the script/workprint David wrestles Kirk to the ground and Caol runs in and after David says, "Stay back--I'm gonna kill him!" Carol replies, "If you do that you'll have killed your father!" And Kirk gets to his feet and says, "Is that true?" she nods yes. Kirk- "Why didn't you tell me?"

    Honestly for some reason Butrick and Besch are not good in that version. They are good in most of the other stuff in the movie, but their acting in that one scene is off.

    On the other hand, MANY of the original unlooped lines in the workprint are not anywhere near as good as the ones that they looped in later in post.
    Koenig's original line readings are poor in many scenes, but decent in the final cut.

    They really did wonders in shaping the performances in post-production looping! Especially the 'new' actors Alley, Butrick, Besch.
    So I guess if they had kept the original fight scene intact--Meyer could have gotten better line readings in post.
     
  19. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Woah... I honestly don't know which one is better. I do like to think that Kirk knew about David. Was Kirk's speech always there, 'cause that makes it seem like he definitely knew. Were ALL the scenes reshot after the fight? Even the KHAN?!
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    What speech? The speech he gives to Khan before he says, "KHAAAAAN!"

    Yes that was in there.

    There was one other little change.

    When alone with carol he originally said, "Why didn't you tell ME?"

    The re-shot a single line where he now says, "I did what you asked--I stayed away, why didn't you tell HIM?"

    Watch the scene where Kirk is sitting on the container in the corridor in Regula and look at the pattern of the rock wall behind him---the lines on the wall all run in a certain pattern.

    For the single re-shot line--Why didn't you tell HIM?----the pattern on the wall is completely different.

    They had obviously quickly grabbed a section of the corridor wall for the little re-shoot and didn't realize the pattern wasn't the same as in the original set-up.

    Also if you compare the two versions of the fight---the remaining portion of the 'original version' and the inserted 'new version'---you can clearly see the multi-colored containers in the background of the fight are set up different and the colors are not the same. It was a really quick last minute re-shoot.

    One other thing to look for when watching the Director's cut---
    When Carol is talking to Chekov after he is controlled by Khan they added in a line where she says, "Genesis is a civillian project under my control!"

    But just before she says it, the young black actor playing "Madison"(?) blurts out---"it's a civill...!!" and then stops and looks chagrined.
    That line of his is NOT in the script and I think he got so pumped for the take he blurted out HER line.
    Besch pauses, shakes her head and then repeats the line.

    It's all very awkward but it seems like something that COULD happen in context of the scene.
    Watch that scene and see what you think happened.
    Whether it was cleverly ad-libbed that way or just happened it seems to work in the scene.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013