The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by mickemoose, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Navigator_NCC2120

    Navigator_NCC2120 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Sol 3
    Maybe it means Section 3, Deck C, Room 46. The number C in the hexadecimal numbering system is equivalent to 12 in the decimal system. I recall years ago in either my French class or Computer class the instructor stating that the French use 3 numbering systems: Octal (base 8), Decimal (base 10), and Hexadecimal (base 16). Maybe Starfleet uses hexadecimal instead of decimal.

    So Section 3, Deck C, Room 46 in hexadecimal is equal to Section 3, Deck 12, Room 70 in decimal.

    Just a thought,


    Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
    /\
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  2. Navigator_NCC2120

    Navigator_NCC2120 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Sol 3
    I had no idea Captain Robert April got banned either. I just thought he was busy working on that Star Trek book he had as his avatar.


    Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
    /\
     
  3. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Location:
    BK613
    For all we know, they could have swiped those labels off of existing doors on the Desilu lot. You know, like cutlery from the commissary. :guffaw:

    They are part of the "appearance of complexity" that adds to the background believability. Like stardates, GNDN labels, patches on multicolored uniforms, and windows. Details that added to the verisimilitude but without the over-the-top forethought of a TNG Tech Manual.

    The windows, of course, were not really intended to inform about the interior of the ship but to inform about the scale of the ship. As in, "Wow! Look at those windows! This thing is as tall as a twenty story building!"
     
  4. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Pyxis Unity
    As with most posters who were around for quite a long time, it's a long story. I'll leave it at that. ;)
     
  5. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
  6. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    This seems to be the thread I was looking for and I hope Mytran forgives that I'm cannibalizing his post as a starting point.

    A long time ago I was biased because of the diagram in The Star Trek Officer's Manual believing that saucer separation would require a section of the neck to come along with the saucer, I now believe this to be different and its just the saucer that separates, leaving the engineering hull with the neck section behind.
    The Making of Star Trek only provided deck numbers for the primary hull and deck 11 was the lowest, no deck numbers were given for the engineering hull (I believe for TMP the lowest one for the engineering hull was 18 or 19).

    Therefore, I believe the engineering decks start at the top of the neck or pylon section with engineering deck 1. According to a cutaway I did back in the 1980's (I used the pylon's / engineering hull's windows as reference for deck height) I arrived at 18 engineering decks and decks 12 and 14 would just be in the middle of the engineering hull and there'd even be windows that could match the windows of Kirk's provisional quarters (while his own were renovated; this is "Mudd's Women" that just takes place shortly after WNM and everything is in the process or just recently has been upgraded) - one is circular, one rectangular (on the port side the windows may just be square...).

    Then why don't they say "engineering deck"? Since there are no decks exceeding deck 11 in the saucer, deck 12 can only be an engineering deck.

    Then why doesn't Spock say "engineering deck 2" in "Enterprise Incident" when he accompanies the Romulan Commander to her quarters (in the neck)?
    In "Conscience of the King" Kevin Riley stole a phaser from "H deck". "The Doomsday Machine" established that the shuttlecraft hangar is not just on deck 1X but that this entire engineering deck is labeled "hangar deck" - or "H deck".
    "E deck" might be the deck with the "Engineering Section" (not to be confused with the "Engine Control Room" in the saucer) and deck 2 in the saucer might also have an alphabetic designation. Thus the turbolift computer understands that Spock wants to travel to engineering deck 2.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  7. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    ^^^

    Seems a little wacky to me, but then, I seem to recall looking at RL ship plans from about a century ago where decks were labeled using such convoluted schemes, so it's probably not without precedent.

    --Alex
     
  8. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    That's some fine extrapolation! (especially H-deck and E-Deck). However I need to add another fly to the ointment:

    In The Naked Time Uhura reports that Sulu is running around in "level 2 corridor 3". If this "level 2" is "Engineering Level 2" (otherwise wouldn't she say "Deck 2") then there are a LOT of corridors crammed into the top of the pylon - impossibly so
     
  9. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Well we do know that Engineering has many decks.

    "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
    CREWMAN: Engineering deck three, can you give damage report?
    "The Conscience of the King"
    KIRK: Lieutenant Kevin Riley in communications, I wish to have him transferred down to the engineering decks.
    "The Corbomite Maneuver"
    KIRK: Helmsman, engineering decks could have been faster, too.
    "The Enemy Within"
    KIRK: The lower levels. The Engineering deck.
    ...
    SCOTT: Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck.
    And there are references to decks in general by number such as "Deck 12", "Deck 14", "Deck 8" and also "H Deck", "B Deck".

    In my personal view, I think there are probably multiple deck schemes going on.

    • A named deck, such as "Engineering Deck" can contain multiple levels. There are also multiple "Engineering Decks", most likely because of the Engineering section.
    • Decks 1-20 (or more) are probably all decks, top to bottom. In my version of the Enterprise, Deck 10 is the neck area. Deck 11 is the top of the Engineering section for me. This is partly due to how many decks I can fit in on the Primary hull.
    • Alpha letter decks are probably primary hull decks - since "B Deck" seems to be a good place to sabotage impulse engines while in orbit in "Court Martial".


    Anyway, that's just my thinking and YMMV :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  10. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    ^^^
    So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?

    Also, the WNMHGB reference... does it have to be "Engineering Deck 3" as in the third of several Engineering Decks, or could it be "Engineering, Deck 3" as in one of several Engineering stations, one of which happens to be located on Deck 3?
     
  11. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Yes, well, in my version anyway. The only place I can fit a tall 2-deck engineering room in the primary hull happens to be much further in to the center of the hull. What I also did was move the bridge a little further down so it takes more of the top bulge structure to account for the turbolift alignment. So in my version, the floor of the engine room is "D Deck" and goes up to "C Deck". "B Deck" is just above the engine room machinery and could make a great place to sabotage the power systems. And since Kirk ends up running to some Jeffries Tube to make his repairs, it's a decent place to extrapolate to, IMHO. For the purposes of the episode, Kirk could have started his search at "B Deck" and ended up in the engine room as he made his way down :)

    [​IMG]

    I think it could work either way since to me it is still an "Engineering Deck". Plus, it is ambiguous enough that it could be in either hull ;)
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Given that the various writers were making up all these references without any consensus understanding of the ship's interior layout, I don't think there's any way to take them all literally as part of some consistent interior plan. I've found over the years that it's best to take all numbers in Star Trek with a grain of salt and be open to the idea that some of them are just mistakes or placeholders that were never meant to withstand scrutiny.
     
  13. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    ^^ Which is why I have no problem accepting the deck layouts from "The Making of Star Trek" and don't worry too much about throwaway lines in the scripts.
     
  14. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    By Grabthar's Hammer... we all definitely have our own take on TOS ;) :D
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    If "level 2" would refer to "Deck 2" there also would have been a lot of corridors just below the bridge. :D

    The "level 2" reference neither fits "deck 2" or alphabetic prefix nomenclature and made me thinking, too.

    What deck is the outer area of the saucer that is on the same deck level as deck 7 but has essentially no connection to the core of deck 7?
    Because of the underside curvature of the saucer hull this outer ship's area can only be accessed via deck 6 and would rather seem to be the lower level of deck 6 or "level 2" than a part of deck 7 (and no need for Uhura to get into details if everybody aboard the ship understands what "level 2" refers to).

    I can imagine Sulu having a great time driving the other crew members there in front of his rapier - they don't have that much evasion possibilities and space. :)

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  16. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    If "H deck" refers to the hangar deck, than "B deck" could stand for Berth deck and there are good reasons for that: It's a naval term from the age of wooden sailing vessels, "a deck next below the gun deck, where the hammocks of the crew were swung."

    According to the official description of the saucer decks, "the decks 4, 5, and 6 are primarily crew quarters, with some provisions for passenger quarters." The senior officers quarters are on deck 5 while the other crew members and junior officers have their quarters on deck 6 (the "Lower Decks" to speak with TNG) which would be the "Berth deck" or simply "B deck".

    The impulse engines are at the stern of deck 6 or "B deck".

    Bob

    @ Christopher

    You may trouble me for the salt, as I assume I have no further need for it.
     
  17. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Just wanted to pitch in about the windows on the pylons. They could be small work areas for people monitoring the engines; a tiny cubicle with a window.
     
  18. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    You're bringing up REALITY in this discussion? Heresy and blasphemy! :)
     
  19. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Pyxis Unity
    Oompa-Loompas? :D
     
  20. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    How many times was "level" used instead of "deck"? I'm thinking maybe “level” refers to pressure compartments, which might span multiple decks, whereas “decks” would be the actual number of horizontal surfaces one would walk on, so sometimes a deck and a level would be the same, but other times not?

    This might have some utility in reconciling such things as guest quarters on level 2 with the long turbo lift ride from the bridge? Level 2 might actually correspond to deck 3 or 4, which would be a longer -perhaps more circuitous- turbo lift ride; the same reasoning goes for there being at least 3 corridors on that level as well?

    Of course, the workability of this scheme depends on how many times level vs. deck is used and if there is any consistency to be made out of it all.
     

Share This Page