The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by mickemoose, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe that is a more precise way of locating her cabin for DC purposes. Something like "Pressure Hull 3C, Frame 46."
     
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Those cabin labels got moved around a lot. Who knows what they actually meant?
     
  3. mickemoose

    mickemoose Ensign Red Shirt

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    If you look closely, you will notice that both nacelle pylons also have windows on them - 3 on each pylon, to be exact. The port-to-starboard width of these pylons is about the same as the port-to-starboard width of the neck. It's hard to argue there's any habitable space in the nacelle pylons, other than a maintenance crawlway that leads from engineering up to the nacelles. Yet, like the neck, it has windows which could suggest lighted maintenance alcoves.

    I would suspect the innards of the neck to be similar in nature to the interior of the nacelle pylons, only on a larger scale.
     
  4. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    Which raises another question for those in the know

    Given that there are windows on the nacelle struts...

    Assuming ( only for the purpose of determining the maximum theoretical internal space there would be ) it's a hollow space in there (e.g., no internal supports or piping, wiring, ducts) , how much room would there be for a person looking out a window?
     
  5. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    The difference between the nacelle strut windows and the pylon neck windows is that the nacelle struts are never lit - making it easy to explain them away as something else (flush vents etc). The pylon neck ones however are lit, and in exactly the same way as the other windows on the ship.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    The full corridor is seen only before Spock and the traveling circus enter the turbolift; after the turbolift ride (and thus supposedly after they reach Deck 12), we only see Kirk's cabin (the standard set), with the mood set by a brief glimpse of some utility corner or another behind a grillework.

    Note, however, that our heroes were beaming cargo. No doubt van Gelder was beamed up into the cargo transport center in the secondary hull, and was fighting his way up to the bridge where he despite his compromised state of mind knew he would meet the person of authority he needed to defeat Adams. :vulcan:

    Many oddities there, indeed. Note how Fisher doesn't complete his sentence - perhaps he's calling Deck 12, rather than calling from Deck 12? After all, Rand yelled for him to specifically call Mr Spock, as if her primary concern here was to keep the incident from becoming public, and personal security came as a distant eleventh.

    We can defend in multiple ways the idea that all the action is taking place on Deck 3, Section C after all. We have the door signage:

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd126.jpg

    We have McCoy's door similarly indicated to be at "3F". We have reason to think the officers (and possibly their personal assistants) live in a fairly isolated part of the ship, rather than "main deck". We later see Spock living on Deck 3 in the upgraded ship. Deck 3 ought to feature enough floor space and curved structure to account for the witnessed corridors - and superstructures like that are classic locations for officers' accommodation in real ships... And both EvilKirk and Fisher might have business at and near Kirk's personal cabin, thus a reason to walk past Rand's.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It would have to be a microbrewery, given the lack of space. :)
     
  8. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    The nacelle pylons are much thinner than the neck. But I've always imagined a Jefferies tube going all the way up each one, with either a ladderway or a service lift. The three windows each represent a stop along the way where regular maintenance is performed.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    They might also be early examples of what we see in ST:FC, demonstrated to Lily Sloane by Picard: a hole in the wall of the starship for some sort of a logistical purpose, perhaps somewhat resembling a window even when shuttered.

    Some backstage doubletalk tried to explain the ST:FC hole as a means of purging onboard air when the ship is suitably connected to a starbase. Regardless of whether that exact idea carries merit, there might be a lot of use for purge valves in the engine pylons...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except that Van Gelder hid in a box (never mind how he got into the box without being discovered) which was one of several small cargo items that were beamed aboard using the regular 6-pad personnel transporter (since that was the only transporter room set).
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't say the transporters at the cargo transport center would look any different from the ones in the saucer...

    Although I guess some of them might. Both the Franz Joseph art for them and the Shane Johnson art for their movie refit equivalents feature a large rectangular platform for bulk cargo transport, but with a cluster of "regular" pads at one end of that platform. The "real" system down in the secondary hull might feature separate six-pad units and rectangles rather than combined units.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Actually you also get to see the cross-brace? for the hallway outside of Kirk's quarters twice. Once when Mudd and Co come in and a second time when the miners enter Kirk's quarters. That's enough information to construct the 8' wide hallway section in front of Kirk's quarters.

    There is also "Journey To Babel" and Deck 11 where they found the body of the Tellarite. It could fit in the neck area, but it would be tight on the width.

    In any case, is there anything in TOS that pins the room label with the deck number and/or place deck 12 in the neck?
     
  13. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My edition of Franz Joseph’s Star Fleet Technical Manual shows only a hexagonal bulk cargo transport platform. The Enterprise blueprint set shows the same thing.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. mickemoose

    mickemoose Ensign Red Shirt

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    Unlit windows in the nacelle pylons could mean no one is in there. The Polar Lights TOS decals do show unlit windows in the neck and engineering hull, too, if we dare call them "windows," that is! :)

    BTW, there's the orange window (or, whatever it is) on the neck that I mentioned earlier.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. mickemoose

    mickemoose Ensign Red Shirt

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    What's that?? Did I just see dark windows in the MAIN ENGINEERING section on that Polar Lights model?? Ho! Ho! Ya hear that, Scotty? Some of your boys were sleeping on the job while you were off duty!"

    SCOTTY: "Aye! And when I find out who those laddies are, I'm gonna take 'em and put 'em in the antimatter storage pod ejection hatch and push the button!!" :scream:
     
  16. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    I always had mixed feelings about the torpedo bays on the refit Enterprise seen in TMP, but you have to admit that if there were any torpedo banks outside of the lower saucer decks, even the minimalist neck of the TOS Enterprise would be a great place to house at least one of them... and "Balance of Terror" seemed to suggest there were forward weapons, mid-ship weapons, and aft weapons on the Enterprise.

    Beyond the notion of at least one torpedo facility, there are a few other possibilities:

    • an observation lounge
    • fabrication facilities (In "Catspaw", Kirk told Korob his ship "could manufacture a ton" of the precious gems)
    • an airlock/travel pod port
    • other permanent equipment, such as sensors
    • piping and wiring conduits between the hulls
    • turboshaft, of course
    • ladderway

    None of this is canon, of course, but canon pretty much ignored the neck anyway. If we retcon from TNG, though, we can assume the neck is used for some kind of ship's facilities.
     
  17. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    This is very advanced technology...

    The E could be like the Tardis, with more space on the inside than the outside. If you think about it, this would solve a lot of problems.
     
  18. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or like the Jupiter 2, which managed to squeeze a control deck, a living quarters deck, and an engineering deck into a saucer barely big enough for one deck! Not to mention a bay for the Space Pod and room for the unassembled Chariot . . .
     
  19. Search4

    Search4 Commander Red Shirt

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    Hey! The Jupiter 2 had very advanced technology! It was launched in 1999!!
     
  20. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Returning to the issue of the pylon for a moment, is there anything to say that those (or indeed any of the) round and rectangular "windows" seen on the ship have to actually be windows?
    Throughout the three years of TOS we only ever saw 3 confirmed windows - two in Conscience of the King (which were square) and one in Mark of Gideon (which was more rectangular, but still different from the ones on the Enterprise model).
    Additionally, MOG showed us that portholes have both interior and exterior shutters (this feature nicely deals with the discreprencies in interior and exterior window shapes)

    So, could some or indeed all of the "windows" seen on the flyby shots each week have in fact been sensors or something? It would certainly explain why there are so many of them in the engineering hull! I mean, shouldn't those engineers be working instead of stargazing? ;)
     

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