"The Most Toys" Data would have killed but lied to Riker!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by DataLoreSpock, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Why would Data lie to Riker about the weapons discharge?
     
  2. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    He didn't lie. He said "perhaps something occurred during transport."
    ;)
     
  3. CaptainMatt

    CaptainMatt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I too always felt Data would have shot the Toy-keeper for what he did to the female. he got lucky the Enterprise locked onto Data in time.
     
  4. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OR he just feigned firing because wanted Fajo to think he was going to kill him. Prove otherwise. ;)
     
  5. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Good point.
     
  6. CaptainMatt

    CaptainMatt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    YOU prove otherwise.
     
  7. Ziz

    Ziz Commodore Commodore

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    He didn't fake it.

    O'BRIEN: I'm reading a weapon in transit with Commander Data. It seems to have discharged, sir.
    RIKER: Discharged?
    O'BRIEN: I'm deactivating it.
    RIKER: Welcome back, Mister Data. Are you all right?
    DATA: Yes, Commander. Please arrange to take Kivas Fajo into custody on charges of murder, kidnapping, theft.
    RIKER: The arrangements have already been made.
    DATA: A Varon-T disruptor. It belongs to Fajo.
    RIKER: Mister O'Brien says the weapon was in a state of discharge.
    DATA: Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander.
     
  8. Saturn0660

    Saturn0660 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He did the best he could with what he had.

    Now maybe he would have missed on purpose. But then again maybe not.
     
  9. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I can prove why he would have lied.
    Ever since that huge arguement over wether Data was a sentient being or Starfleet property,people would have wanted a reason to have Data shut down.
    He did not want to be disassembled in the first place but to kill Fajo would have gone aganst what everyone percives as one of his limitations.
    To go over one of his limitations would give Starfleet an oppertunity to claim that as a malfunction.
    Why shut down Data? To study him and make more Soong type androids.
     
  10. TerragonSix

    TerragonSix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Then why, did he say, right before he was transported, before he was going to 'supposedly' fire, as Fajo was giving his speech about how Data could not feel revenge, that he simply would find someone else to hurt or kill so that Data would obey, with Data looking down, he said:

    "I cannot permit this to continue."

    That seems pretty final to me. The weapon did discharge during transport.

    When I watched it, I thought Data would do it. It was a justifable action; to prevent further harm to others, the only way he could end that would be to kill Fajo, or himself.
     
  11. Mott the barber

    Mott the barber Commodore Commodore

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    Just randomly watched this one a few days ago on netflix. That "did he fire or not"question is still as strong as it was the first time it aired.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why would Data have shot Fajo with a weapon that kills so horribly and agonizingly as the Varon-T does? Couldn't he have attacked Fajo hand-to-hand and disabled him without killing him?
     
  13. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes,Data could have easily beaten Fajo in hand to hand combat.
    But the Veron-T disruptor was easily available and that portable sheild of his would have buped Data back so Data could not get to Fajo or he would have escaped a lot sooner.
     
  14. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    (Spelling error, sorry)
    Yes,Data could have easily beaten Fajo in hand to hand combat.
    But the Veron-T disruptor was easily available and that portable sheild of his would have bumped Data back so Data could not get to Fajo or he would have escaped a lot sooner.
     
  15. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He could have ended it without killing anybody. He could have surrended his freedom and obeyed Fajo - if not forever, then for long enough to find an alternative.
    By choosing to kill Fajo, Data was placing his own freedom above somebody's life.

    Fajo had murdered, but one murder doesn't excuse another.

    This has always bothered me.
     
  16. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That dialogue (if taken at face value) backs up my "OR". It only takes on another meaning if you read between the lines. And between those lines is the fact that Data is a liar and potential murderer. :)
     
  17. 7thsealord

    7thsealord Captain Captain

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    So, Data should have passively allowed Fajo to continue doing what he did?

    Who is to say how many more people Fajo would have killed if allowed to continue? Murder didn't bother him at all, so I also have to wonder how much death and destruction could be laid at Fajo's door already.

    Data had no way of knowing if/when he would ever have any other oppurtunity to stop Fajo from hurting / killing anybody else. Certainly, after that particular fracas, Fajo would have become even more cautious - and undoubtedly taken a bunch of extra precautions to keep Data bottled up.

    Data did what he had to. At least one life had been lost already, and more would certainly be lost if Fajo remained at large. I don't have any problem at all with Data's actions. I might question his evasions (and that is all they are) after the fact, but very very mildly.
     
  18. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Data did what Fajo wanted of him: none, probably. That was the purpose of the choice, anyway: "become my possession and I will harm no-one else; don't, and I'll kill again."

    Killing somebody because they *might* kill somebody else in future is not justifiable. No-one was in immediate danger in this instance.
     
  19. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That guy in the background was before he left.
    Fajo: You will return to your room and you will sit in your chair you will entertain me and my guests or I will simply kill another person, him. (motions to the guy on the floor behind him)
    Data: I can not allow this to continue.
    Fajo would have killed a lot of people in otder to get what he wanted.
    I do not condone murder but then again Data did not know if the Enterprise would find him and Data knew that Fajo's crew was loyal to him.
     
  20. DataLoreSpock

    DataLoreSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    (Spelling error)
    That guy in the background was before he left.
    Fajo: You will return to your room and you will sit in your chair you will entertain me and my guests or I will simply kill another person, him. (motions to the guy on the floor behind him)
    Data: I can not allow this to continue.
    Fajo would have killed a lot of people in order to get what he wanted.
    I do not condone murder but then again Data did not know if the Enterprise would find him and Data knew that Fajo's crew was loyal to him.