The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Chaos Descending, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Don't read the New Adventures novel No Future then, whatever you do...
     
  2. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Im in ur Tardis, violating ur canon.
    ^ That's pretty good advice about half of the New Adventures anyway.:)
     
  3. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Durham, North Carolina
    Ah, that would make sense. Pity Stewart was too busy, but I'm looking forward to Dalton's appearance, Monk or not. Hopefully Stewart will be able to appear later on down the road.
     
  4. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Location:
    Grand Canyon State
    I wouldn't dream of it. Can't stand the New Adventures and don't accept canonicity of the various novel ranges in any case.
     
  5. ClayinCA

    ClayinCA Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    California
    As far as answering the OP's question: well, Terrance Dicks (who created the War Chief and was instrumental in the creation of the Master) says they're two different characters, and I figure he would know.
     
  6. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Kaled bunker, Skaro
    The War Chief was destroyed by the Time Lords. I see no way he could have been the Master. If they were the same guy, the Time Lord who warned Doctor #3 about the Master being on Earth would have mentioned it.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I think the bloke in the suit called the master "an old friend of yours".
     
  8. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Location:
    Grand Canyon State
    This is clearly evidence in favor of him being The Master. Remember Planet of Fire? Being killed and showing up later is The Master's MO.

    I don't see why this MUST be true. If the Doctor already knew who the Master was, why would he have to specifically mention that he was the War Chief too?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Because he only stopped by to say that the Master was up to no good.
     
  10. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Kaled bunker, Skaro
    Not when he first showed up.

    Since the War Chief was directly tied to the events resulting in the Doctor's exile on Earth it only makes sense that he or the Doctor would have mentioned the connection at some point.

    The Doctor and the War Chief were never old friends.
     
  11. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Location:
    Grand Canyon State
    There had to be a first time. Besides, for those who follow the novels, even the novels suggest that the War Chief survived the events of The War Games.

    It could also have made sense to mention that the Master was in the academy with the Doctor, but no mention was made of that either. There is no reason that The War Games MUST have been mentioned specifically.

    So you don't think that the phrase "an old friend" was meant ironically? I don't recall any mention of the Master being the Doctor's actual friend until Frontier in Space. Even Khan Noonian Singh calls Kirk "old friend". Does that mean that they were once drinking buddies?
     
  12. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Kaled bunker, Skaro
    Not the novelization of War Games, and that is the only one that is canon.
     
  13. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Location:
    Grand Canyon State
    Novelizations of episodes are not canon either.

    But then, don't try to tell Lance Parkin that the books don't count. ;)
     
  14. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Kaled bunker, Skaro
    I know I don't count any of that faction paradox nonsense. All those books were horrible, as was the idea of Compassion becoming the Tardis.:)
     
  15. ClayinCA

    ClayinCA Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    California
    Well, either way they're still two different people, 'cause the book that features the War Chief makes it pretty clear that he's not the Master (and again, this particular book was written by Terrance Dicks, who created or co-created both characters). Another book, the excellent The Dark Path (written by Trek BBS's own lonemagpie), tells the story of a Troughton-era Master and makes it pretty darn unlikely that the Master and the War Chief were one and the same.
     
  16. Garth Rockett

    Garth Rockett Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Location:
    Flying in a Purple Dream
    That tidbit does come out (more or less) in The Sea Devils, which is still relatively early in the Master's history on the show. I believe the Doctor's line is something like, "You might say we were at school together." While the Doctor is giving out tidbits like this to describe his past history with the Master, it would seem logical for some sort of War Games reference to come up as well, if the Master was indeed the War Chief.
     
  17. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    東京
    The Doctor is The Master.
     
  18. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Location:
    Grand Canyon State
    I think Jenny is the Master.
     
  19. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2000
    Location:
    Time Vortex
    From what I've heard, he's playing the Chancellor of the High Council. I've seen one picture in Time Lord robes, which oddly look a bit like Omega's robes from Arc of Infinity to me. Who knows...pun intended...but it does seem that the Time Lords are back after all, or at least one of them.
     
  20. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Location:
    Kavala, Greece
    I think they're the same guy. I mean, it'd make sense for the Master to be mad at the Doctor, if the events of The War Games brought about both his discovery by the Time Lords and probably his last "natural" regeneration.

    And remember, the first couple of years of Pertwee's run weren't exactly continuity-proof-seeking. They were effectively retooling the series, without bothering to establish firm references to the past - thus no Jamie/Zoe references in Pertwee's first serial.