The Legend of Korra - Book Two: Spirits

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Agent Richard07, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    <<- One more thing... Some of what we saw in this episode didn't totally mesh with what we've heard about bending. Supposedly people learned bending from badger moles, dragons, the moon and sky bisons but here, they were given bending. The only way I can reconcile this is maybe they simply honed their existing skills by watching the nature and the rest became folklore.>>

    They showed this in the episode. Wan got fire from the Lion Turtle, but in the montage they showed him TRAINING with a dragon to learn how to use it well. So the bending gene was already in humanity from ancient times, but that skill was refined by studying the animals which also possessed the elements. Perhaps there was a time when the art of bending was forgotten after the Lion Turtles left and lay fallow, but it was relearned from the animals.

    One of the things I loved about the episode was how they introduced so many new concepts to the mythology while at the same time not contradicting the old stuff and even referencing to it like that. Well done, chaps!
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Wan only had fire at first, given to him by the lion-turtle of his home city. Then he found the airbender community and asked its lion-turtle to give him airbending, but it explained that Raava would need to hold the ability until he trained enough to be ready for it. Once that happened, he had fire and air. It was later on that we saw him gain waterbending and earthbending the same way, one at a time.


    Maybe, but it's possible that only lion-turtles have the ability. Yet it's worth noting that each l-t only gave one element. Maybe this is the basis of the Four Nations -- each l-t had a particular elemental affinity, and this affected the character of the people living atop it -- or perhaps people with that character were drawn to the appropriate l-t. Maybe Wan was able to acquire multiple elements because he was an outsider, a renegade. And it was only after a couple of years living among the spirits, outside of any one l-t's influence, that he gained his second element. You could say that he became unique among humans in that his affinity was with the spirits -- the fifth element, the quintessence -- rather than with any of the four material elements. And that's what made him capable of assimilating multiple elements.

    Hey, I just realized -- Wan gained his elements in the same order as the Avatar cycle. After fire comes air, then water, then earth. That must be why the cycle goes in that order.


    That seems unlikely. As I said, Wan went on a long journey that entailed living among the spirits for years and acquiring elemental abilities from lion-turtles. As far as we know, there's only one lion-turtle left in the world, and the spirits no longer inhabit the material plane (although they clearly do have means of crossing over aside from the polar portals). Plus, Raava seemed to be a uniquely powerful spirit -- with one exception:

    Now, that's possible, and it might well be Unalaq's goal for himself.


    Actually I was thinking that this is probably something that every Avatar must experience at some point, in order to learn the whole story of who they are and where they began. But you're probably right that it takes a lot of mental/spiritual effort to achieve, a deep communion with the Avatar Spirit.


    As I mentioned in that earlier discussion, there's a difference between having the ability and mastering it. I mean, most of us have fingers, but it's only with training that we can play the piano or guitar with them. As we saw here, Wan's training with the dragons gave him the ability to control his fire much better than the other humans could. So they were fire-users, but he was the first firebender, the first one who could manipulate it and use it as an extension of his body and will rather than just generating and throwing it. Similarly, the other humans who'd been given their abilities by the lion-turtles still needed to learn how to master those abilities by studying the animals that shared them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  3. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This episode settles the matter with a definite 'yes'.
    Yes, a non-bender can gain bending by appealing to a lion-turtle and convincing said lion-turtle to give him/her bending.
    Indeed, lion-turtles routinely gave bending to non-benders in ancient times; and they did so pretty casually - for a hunting trip or for harvesting fruits.

    Also quite possible.
    Presently, Vaatu might be nervous, seeing how a human, helped by a very weak Raava, defeated him 10000 years ago.
    He may not look forward to again facing a human helped by a now strong Raava. Not unless he gets his own human empowered with bending of the four elements. And now that the spirit postal is open, humans can meet him in the spirit world.
     
  4. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    I have a feeling that this is what is going to happen with Unalaaq during the Harmonic Convergence.
     
  5. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well that plot took it's sweet time kicking in. Honestly, I was starting to wonder if this show had totally lost focus.

    Part of me hopes that Korra's irrational behaviour of late will turn out to be the result of some kind of resonance with Vaatu. Maybe he and Raava are still somewhat connected and the Avatar spirit can sense when his influence is growing. I really hope it's not just poor writing.

    It's also the order in which Rokku, Aang and Korra mastered them. I wonder if it's just a tradition or something more fundamental to the way an Avatar works. Meaning, is it even possible for an avatar to learn them out of sequence? Could easily be just a coincidence, but Aang did try using fire before he'd mastered either water or earth and was unable to control it.

    Here's a scary thought; maybe that's exactly what need to happen to restore balance? Maybe from here on out there will be two Avatars acting as yin and yang? I think it's either that or Vaatu and Raava will be reunited, ending the line of Avatars forever....OR they will both become merged with the Avatar spirit?

    However it plays out, I'd be a little disappointed if all they end of doing is shoving him back in his cage for another ten millennia.
     
  6. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    Raava did say that no matter the outcome of the Harmonic Convergence they would still emerge from each other. If Vaatu won, light would grow inside of him until Raava emerged again.

    Maybe Vaatu is attempting to reenter the physical world by reemerging through Raava, which is now the Avatar.
     
  7. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Saw it again and yeah, Raava held the other three elements while Wan used just one, then he switched between them when Raava passed through him. What threw me off was seeing Wan get water and then use it right away. I assume at that point that Raava held the other two elements while he got waterbending.

    Yeah, that would be lame. If the writing is any good then something more than that has to happen. The first event resulted in the lion turtles and the spirits going away, mankind getting bending permanently and the creation of the avatar. A second event should result in something big too. Either a spiritual shift or a dark avatar or something else along those lines. I've been reading other boards and Unalaq as a the dark avatar seems to be popular. Episode 2x10 is titled "A New Spiritual Age". Don't know what that means but it sounds promising. Maybe we'll get something well before the finale and see it play out.
     
  8. Hunter X

    Hunter X Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe Book 3 will be titled "Dark" with 4 serving as "Light". It would be fairly daring if Korra failed at the end of this book, leading into the plot of the third.
     
  9. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    "Elements" came to mind after I saw last night's episode. Then "Darkness" popped into my head as another possibility after I made my post.

    I don't know if Book 2 will end with Korra failing because from what I heard, Nickelodeon wants this show to have standalone seasons but I read that books 3 and 4 might be more connected so maybe you're onto something there.
     
  10. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, that was an awesome episode. I absolutely loved the art style they used with the backgrounds that looked like an old style Chinese or Japanese painting.
    I was also wondering if Unalaq is involved with Vaatu somehow. Didn't we already see him crossover into the Spirit world? Or was he just going from the Northern to Southern Water Tribes?
     
  11. ChowdaHead

    ChowdaHead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i think It would be a mistake to have Unalaq converge with Vaatu. I like the idea of Unalaq as a pawn, but im still curious as to where Amon is. There is no way he is dead. I would like to see him return with some master plan to converge with Vaatu. that or have him team up with Korra and friends to take out whoever does become this Dark Avatar. either way, he was an awesome character and one of the better ones in this show. he needs a good welcoming home and I believe he will get it.
     
  12. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Amon's dead. The boat exploded and he had no warning it was going to happen.

    I hope we get a dark avatar, but it should be a young person, not Unaloq.

    I thought of another little problem with "Beginnings". Given that this was 10,000 years ago I expected human buildings and technology to be a lot more primitive. They shouldn't have had nice buildings and tempered steel like that.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    When he emerged from the portal, Desna (I think) asked "Were you in the Spirit World?" but he didn't answer.


    Eska?


    Well, there's no set time frame for technological progress. It tends to follow punctuated equilibrium, remaining at a stable level until there's an incentive and opportunity for advancement. The level of technology that Europe had at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution had been reached by China 700 years earlier, but the difference was that China was stable and prosperous as it was and thus had no incentive for change, whereas Europe was comparatively poor and lacking in land and resources and thus had a strong incentive for change. And then you have different societies around the world existing at comparable levels but not making the same innovations -- for instance, the Native Americans never adopting wheeled vehicles.

    The existence of bending would reduce the need for technological innovation compared to our world. You don't need to develop elaborate stoneworking or mining tools when you have earthbenders, or invent water pumps when you have waterbenders, or the like. Also, technological innovation tends to come along in times of need and change, and yet the Avatars kept the world relatively stable and harmonious for most of its history. The change we've seen in the two shows so far seems to have been motivated by the Hundred Year War and its aftermath. The Fire Nation was motivated to develop new weapons technologies, whereas the Mechanist and his people developed flight technologies as a substitute for the airbending that effectively no longer existed. Need drives innovation. And since then, the world has continued to be in a state of change and transition, driving further innovation. But before then, with benders more abundant and the world's civilizational balance more stable, it's no surprise that its rate of technological innovation would've been slower overall than ours.
     
  14. ChowdaHead

    ChowdaHead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    this statement is naive. did you see a body? just because it exploded doesn't mean Amon didn't survive. I highly doubt he is dead and I know im not the only one who feels this way. I expect he will return in some fashion. and regarding your second point, the creators of the show didn't ask you what you expected.
     
  15. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    That's right, thanks. I was wondering if perhaps he was in the Spirit World and was meeting with Vaatu. Even if he doesn't bond with Vaatu, I could still see him working to try to free him. It could also explain how he learned to control the spirits.
     
  16. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    We might see Amon in the Spirit World, but he is dead. The scene was so incredibly solemn and unexpected it would be a disservice to have him survive somehow. I doubt even Bryan and Michael would be so amateur to have him survive.
     
  17. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, Amon's story is played out. He's dead and hopefully will remain so.

    I had the same thought. Really I had expected it to have been an early iron age level of technology. However, I reason that the Lionturtles did more than just carry and protect humans, they were their teachers too. I doubt those societies would have been so developed without their guidance. Indeed, notice despite being years old, the new settlements do indeed look like basic mud huts. Presumably these aren't the same guys that go on to found the Mesoamerica inspired civilisation, unless somewhere down the line they drastically change their attitudes towards nature (and by extension, the dragons.)
     
  18. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    When he turtles left, they took the cities and everyone's homes with them so humanity had to start all over again.
     
  19. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Seeing a younger Wan made me think that Joseph Gordon-Levitt would make a good live-action version of the character.

    [​IMG]

    But the voice actor Steven Yeun could also play the part.

    [​IMG]

    And here's an interesting look for Korra...

    [​IMG]

    Found it on another board.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Except that he's 32 and not really suitable to play "younger" anymore. Plus he's white.



    GAAAHHH!! So... wrong...
     

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