The least disliked episode of DS9 - Final Round

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by BlueStuff, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 8, 2001
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    Great Britain
    Still going for "The Visitor" superior episodes have already gone

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 0
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Purgatory's Shadow: the weaker of the Garak two-parters

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 1
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  3. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Bay Area, CA
    Yeah, with Inferno gone, next goes the other part. A fine episode, but I think the rest are better.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  4. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is too hard. I guess I'll vote for What You Leave Behind. It's a brilliant conclusion, if some things are a bit rushed. The only thing that bothers me is the Dukat/Winn storylin, that I don't think was resolved properly/

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 1
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  5. BlueStuff

    BlueStuff Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In Purgatory's Shadow. I actually prefer the second part.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 3
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 1
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  6. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I'll vote What You Leave Behind because I think the prophets/pah wraiths arc got just a little too magical for Star Trek.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 3
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 2
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  7. 4Cardassia

    4Cardassia Ensign Newbie

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    Jan 12, 2013
    As much as it pains me, I'll have to go with "In Purgatory's Shadow." I am surprised "The Die is Cast" is sliding under the radar so easily, though. "In Purgatory's Shadow" is the first part of a grandiose adventure packed with delightful character interaction (like the hilarious banter between Worf and Garak), shocking revelations, spine-tingling foreshadowing, and captivating political intrigue-- all wrapped up in Deep Space Nine's usual charm, rich landscape, and impressive production values. In many ways, this episode's character-driven focus, grand scope, and fun-loving sense of adventure encapsulates everything I adore about this show. Nevertheless, it does seem to take a while to get going, dedicating its first fifteen minutes to setting up the situation and filler scenes of character interaction (however charming that may be). I also could have guessed Garak's relation to Tain from miles away and the dating of Bashir's abduction makes little sense.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In Purgatory's Shadow - 4
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 2
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    It's still "The Visitor" superior episodes have already been dropped.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Tacking to the Wind: Really small things matter now. This was a great episode, but it was brought down by the contrivance of Worf playing a role, once again, in the Klingon succession. (Moreover, it seemed silly that the council would have elevated Worf to the chancellery, given he should have failed the ja'chuq.) And The Visitor is still great.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 1
     
  10. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Tacking Into the Wind - it's just a cog of a much bigger machine. The finale stands on its own, but the lead-ups aren't all that special on their own.

    The Die is Cast - 0
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  11. 4Cardassia

    4Cardassia Ensign Newbie

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    Jan 12, 2013
    Oh dear. My favorite Star Trek episode is coming under fire now. I'll vote for "The Die is Cast" and explain why, but first I would like to make a defense for my beloved "Tacking Into the Wind." Though it has recently been described as not being "all that special," I would like to highlight the ways in which this segment of the Final Chapter is indeed unique and independent from the other episodes of the arc. (It should be noted that much of the following text is taken from a previous post of mine.)

    It amazes me that this episode gets so little recognition. Perhaps it's because "Tacking" gets buried beneath the rest of the Final Chapter arc. Regardless, this so-called “cog of a much bigger machine” manages to satisfyingly conclude a story arc dating back to TNG’s third season and provide thought-provoking analyses of two major political entities undergoing radical change. I’d even say it is deserving of the title of “least disliked episode of DS9” because in only forty-five minutes, this episode manages to capture everything that made this show great. Episode highlights include:

    • Damar’s path to redemption. Seeing Damar’s transformation from drunken puppet leader to heroic freedom fighter was one of the most exciting and rewarding storylines the show ever accomplished. Nowhere is this more apparent than in “Tacking Into the Wind,” when Damar is forced to recognize Cardassia’s collective guilt and need to move forward. During the episode’s tension-filled climax, Damar kills the rigid and prejudiced Gul Rusot to protect Kira, symbolically doing away with the old Cardassian ways.
    • Kira leading a Cardassian rebellion. This idea was simply a stroke of genius. Bringing Kira over to assist Damar’s Cardassian terrorist operation brings the Bajoran/Cardassian arc full circle. There’s a delicious sense of irony and poetic justice about having the Cardassians be put in the same position as the Bajorans a decade prior.
    • Odo and Kira’s touching romance. While I was initially unsure about this relationship when it started back in season six, episodes like “Tacking Into the Wind” prove why Odo and Kira have the purest and most touching romance ever shown in Star Trek. By this point, Nana Visitor has already cemented herself as the best actress to ever grace Star Trek. With “Tacking Into the Wind,” she gives perhaps her best performance yet!
    • Ezri’s insightful, yet frank criticism on the state of the Klingon Empire. This is surely Ezri’s finest moment.
    And I can go on and on! Everything– visuals, music, acting, dialogue, and mood– seems to come together here. "Tacking Into the Wind" hangs the fates of entire interstellar civilizations precariously in the balance, tying into the Final Chapter’s overarching theme of “ever-changing and uncertain times.” Yet while the episode is set against an epic struggle for survival, the real drama remains driven by the characters and their relationships with each other. Quite simply, this episode is a prime example of what Deep Space Nine does best: intense character studies coupled with ethical and societal analyses set against a engrossingly rich and complex political backdrop.

    Upon watching episodes like "Tacking Into the Wind," it amazes me that DS9 was able to go out on such a high note. While its contemporary series chugged along in their final seasons, cranking out one rehashed plot line after another, Deep Space Nine was busy introducing new characters, telling daring new stories, and shaking up the status quo. For anyone that needs a reminder about how great DS9 can be, check this episode out again! Certainly, “Tacking Into the Wind” stands out as a delightful high-point in Deep Space Nine’s nine concluding episodes—perhaps emerging even more polished and focused than our cherished “What You Leave Behind.”

    Anyway, I’m voting for “The Die is Cast” because there are better episodes of its kind (that “kind” being: blistering character drama with interstellar repercussions) still remaining. Sure, up to the point of its airing, nothing quite as sweeping and momentous had been seen on Star Trek before. But Deep Space Nine continued to outdo itself in that department from this point on. In addition, the scenes of Sisko and crew on the Defiant detracted from the more interesting drama of Odo’s torture and the doomed scheme against the Dominion. A fantastic episode to be sure, but not quite as good as its counterpart “Improbable Cause”— nor as thought-provoking or significant as the other episodes on here.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 1
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    ^4Cardassia, you didn't change my mind, but that's a touching defense. Bravo!
     
  13. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    Feb 9, 2005
    The Visitor, for the reason I've already stated.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What You Leave Behind... great episode, epic conclusion, but I think overall the remaining episodes are stronger on their own.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 1
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  15. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Five top ten of series episodes, and What You Leave Behind.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 2
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  16. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think In the Pale Moonlight has gotten a single vote during any of the stages. I think it's obvious where this is going. The Visitor refuses to go down, but it's inevitable. ;)
     
  17. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll go for What You Leave Behind again, for the same reasons as before.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 2
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    What You Leave Behind - 2
    Tacking into the Wind - 2
     
  18. Claudia

    Claudia Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Correcting the vote (somehow 1 vote got lost for WYLB, making it 3 votes before mine), I'll eliminate What you leave behind. The Pah'Wraith part just didn't do anything for me.

    First vote in the next round goes to The Die is Cast - it's a good episode, a good start to a two-parter. But honestly, I think it's hard to compare the individual parts of 2-part-episodes to single part ones. They just don't stand alone, therefore don't work as well individually for me.

    The Die is Cast - 1
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 0
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  19. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm sure I voted for this before too, but one more for The Die is Cast.

    The Die is Cast - 2
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 0
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 0
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Tacking into the Wind... good episode, great one actually... but not as great as the rest.

    The Die is Cast - 2
    Improbable Cause - 0
    The Visitor - 0
    In the Pale Moonlight - 0
    Tacking into the Wind - 1