The Kelvin's uniforms

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by NCC-1967, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The outer edge is gold (where a black edge is during the series), and the interior is silvery/whitish. I'll see if I can find another pic...

    EDIT:

    Here it is in high-def:

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x11hd/themenageriepart1hd353.jpg
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x11hd/themenageriepart1hd356.jpg
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x12hd/themenageriepart2hd092.jpg
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x12hd/themenageriepart2hd096.jpg


    Gold outer edge but silvery/white interior.
     
  2. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's what I see too.Gold outer edge,silver interior
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Which brings to mind this scene:

    MCCOY: He's dead Jim.
     
  4. Tyberius

    Tyberius Commander Red Shirt

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    It looks like on all the gold shirts, it is gold and on the blue shirt it is silver, so it could be just reflecting (and silver).

    ETA: Of course if we only go by this, all humans have blue eyes.
     
  5. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that the gold shirts do make the insignia look more goldish due to reflection, yes.
     
  6. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    I feel compelled to repeat myself on this issue:
    If we accept that the delta is the service-wide emblem, then I'm not sure I find anything objectionable in the new fabric texture. This could be a style thing of Starfleet or a security issue, making it harder for an impostor to simply throw on black pants and a colored tunic and try to blend in. Someone's bound to notice something's not quite right with that science crewman they don't recognize when they get close enough to notice his tunic is unpatterned.

    Even if the delta isn't service-wide, but Enterprise-specific, the same could hold true. Each ship's quartermaster would equip new crew with official uniforms for that ship as they come aboard.

    Personally, I've never seen the pull-over tunics to look terribly much like a uniform. When that Air Force officer interrogating Kirk in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" asks if Kirk's wearing some kind of uniform, I usually just smile and shake my head. The only thing that begins to look vaguely like a uniform on Kirk's attire are his captain's stripes. Everything else looks like leisure-wear to me. Unfortunately, these new outfits don't resolve my little problem. Were I in charge, I'd likely go with department-specific shirt, with Starfleet iconography and nametag on the chest, rank on the sleeves, and ship-specific patch with department enhancement on the shoulder.

    But I'll let it slide for now.
     
  7. mic of orion

    mic of orion Commander Red Shirt

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    Can someone post pics of Kelvin plz ?? thanx :)
     
  8. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. mic of orion

    mic of orion Commander Red Shirt

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    ^^

    thanx :bolian:

    WOW, awesome, it seems USS Kelvin is under attack, from some kind of missiles.
     
  10. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    ...or fighters.
     
  11. mic of orion

    mic of orion Commander Red Shirt

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    yep, or fighters, can't really tell, but impact points tell me it could be some sort of missile, well, we'll see, I am definitely going to see this movie in my local cinema :)
     
  12. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just for the record, I did read what you said (and it was worth saying). I think that the MARPAT thing is also extraordinarily goofy, too, though. It doesn't add anything practical, and the line I've heard from people in-service about that sort of thing (the other services have been talking about it as well) is that it's the inevitable result of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy... and that they think that the new uniform style is, well.. "FAAABulous." ;)
    I get your point. It's just that the idea seems so... well, so over-the-top... that it does nothing but make me wince when I see it.

    What next? Everyone gets little diamond-encrusted starfleet-arrowhead caps on their teeth for that extra Starfleet "bling?"
    Sure... if there was any practical benefit to this, I might buy that as a valid argument. But honestly, I see nothing of any kind being added to the uniform by virtue of this. It's there for "style" but for no other purpose.

    And from a film-making standpoint... it wastes the studio's money on something which, at best, will never be noticed. As I've said before, if the audience actually notices this, that will only mean that the storytelling has left them so bored that they have nothing better to do than look at fabric patterns. NOT something that would bode well for the film.
    Well, the way I've always chosen to look at it is that the uniforms we saw all the time in Trek were one uniform option, not the only uniform available. During the first season, we saw a lot of other variations, but they eventually (mainly for cost reasons, I assume) stopped using variations and other uniform types, and everyone just wore their velour-of-the-day.

    In an equivalent to real, modern military uniforms, I'd say that the stuff we normally saw our heroes wearing was the "Class B" uniform.... the casual, daily-wear uniform. This would be typical for on-ship duty.

    There'd also be a variety of "class C" uniforms... depending on the job. Engineering jumpsuits, for instance, would be a "class C" uniform, while security guys would have a very different (combat-oriented) class-C. The class - C is the "working wear" uniform.

    There'd also be a "class A" uniform. This would be something more along the lines of what I think you're thinking... and much more closely related to the ST-TWOK style uniform (which is really impractical for daily wear, IMHO).

    To compare the Army "Class A" and "Class B" uniforms, see this site. It's a PDF file.

    http://swc2.hccs.edu/texasmedicalrangers/Uniform-Army-Class-A-and-B.pdf

    The TOS uniform is equivalent to a "Class B," I think.

    Of course, there's also the "dress uniform" which is NOT equivalent to a "class A" uniform. I had both dress blues and dress whites when I was in the service... while my Class A was Army green. The "dress jacket" worn by Kirk and company a few times is more like that than like a class-A design.
     
  13. Basil

    Basil Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, they weren't supposed to look like contemporary uniforms (or as is less popular in sci-fi, 19th century European military attire with futuristic or creative flourishes) but like something plausible for a para-military, primarily scientific organization in a future of comparatively fantastic technology. Compared to Enterprise's 20th century exterminator or auto mechanic aesthetic, they're far more successful in this regard to me. I do wish the "gold" shirts were more of an olive color, though, as I believe that would have conveyed "uniform" more strongly, as well as done the whole red/blue/green thing.
     
  14. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  15. Basil

    Basil Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, that's my point. If I want to watch something that looks so boring, I'll tune in to Discover and see exterminators, auto mechanics, and 20th century astronauts. But I'd prefer sci-fi show actual imagination, even in costuming.
     
  16. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    Cary, let me start off with how much I enjoy arguing with you; you're consistently rational and well-informed and even when I disagree with you, it's always fun. On this issue, I don't think we're quite going to be able to see eye-to-eye. The emblem-texture is an interesting idea, one that I'm not completely sold on, but is representative of the sort of over-the-top design textile technology that we see as goofy today, but probably dirt-cheap and easy by the 23rd century. Most of today's fabrics are made by weaving threads of one or more materials together, produced in vast batches, and sold in bolts. Whenever you look closely, you always see the weave, tight or loose. It's boring after a while, and I'd like to see something better come along. In "The Making of Star Trek", the uniforms were supposedly some kind of recycled material ... broken down after use and cleaned at the molecular level before being reassembled into something clean for the next use. Naturally no one then could afford to make a representative uniform on a TV budget. These days, I suppose you could make rubberized uniforms or maybe use silicone, for more flexibility, but it wouldn't be very comfortable. (Hmmm ... I should try spraying some "Dip-it" on an old t-shirt ....)

    In the absence of that, this approach borrows from a new trend in real military wear to reflect, perhaps iconographically, the existence of new materials technology better than velour ever could. I'm sure if we looked closely at the actual, on-set shirts, we'd still see a weave, but the texture of the emblem suggests an unusual process that, while almost sure to become commonplace within ten years, is still new today.

    Crap ... I just had a vision of a world populated with people wearing logo-textured sports clothes. Nike swooshes, NBA basketballs, Pepsi waves, etc. And I have zero doubt we're going to start seeing a lot of this real soon.

    That was one of my complaints about "Wrath of Kahn" ... the duplicate emblem on the belt just worsened those overwrought uniforms.


    I think there is some benefit in the way of "branding" uniforms so that you know the uniforms are genuine. Just like the MARPAT initiative. But I'd also expect by the 23rd century that making such a pattern would be almost as easy as sneezing into a Kleenex. But there again ... if it's so easy to make fabrics that way, why not? Can't Starfleet Quartermaster Command have just a little sense of style? Not that I think a Starfleet emblem texture is especially stylish.

    No, no, no! It isn't Abram's job to look at fabric patterns. He hired a costume designer for that job and he or she brought their experiences and prejudices to the table, showing Abrams designs and swatches until he saw something he liked, just like any other motion picture. And the more I think about this, the more I realize my prediction about textured fabrics might be closer than I first thought -- I think Paramount is planning to market Starfleet-textured tie-ins. Damnit, I just hope I look good in command-gold underoos.

    No, I'm thinking more of a class B uniform, but all I have are vague notions for something that looks more like a uniform, while being somewhat informal and comfortable. Let me nip off to the 23rd century for a bit, and I'll come back with better ideas. And thanks for the Class A and B uniforms link ... I loved it!

    If they weren't supposed to look like uniforms, then why does that Air Force Major recognize Kirk's get-up as a uniform? Yes, the outfits are supposed to look casual and comfortable compared to modern services, but I think the old uniforms fall just a little bit short of their mark. I still like 'em more than the TWOK get-ups, though.

    Yep! I really liked the Enterprise costumes. Right down to the shirt and ties on the admirals.
     
  17. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, to me those all look very much the same... metallic gold threads, but sewn to the uniform using thread much the same color as the uniform.

    Gold, when bright and polished, reflects much more lightly than when it's covered with that odd "aged" coating that things get, of course, but gold tends to remain brighter than other metals. Put a bright metallic gold (real gold, not the "gold paint" we sometimes think of!) under bright studio lamps and they'll reflect nearly white under certain circumstances.

    So, to my eyes, I still see gold there. I think the only way that I'd be convinced (and likely that you guys would be convinced, I'm guessing) would be to inspect an original patch. Since that's not likely to happen, I guess we'll just have to disagree. But I see "gold" in those images. It's just a much shinier, brighter color than the dark gold of the tunic fabric.
     
  18. ancient

    ancient Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think they could've made the gold uniforms closer to khaki. Just to make the crew look less like a bunch of people at a Superman fan club meeting. :lol:
     
  19. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

    As for the Kelvin Uniforms....

    I believe I read somewhere online that this movie has almost as large a Wardrobe Dept. as The Motion Picture had, if not bigger.

    If this is correct, then is it not likely to assume, that there will be different uniform's for all the time period's represented... Pre-Kirk Era (USS Kelvin and such)... Kirk Era (Academy and TOS)... and Post-Kirk Era (24th Century).
     
  20. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    It's under attack by TOS canonistas.