The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Mach5, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You certainly can't blame O'Brien for being uncomfortable. But you also have to think, Keiko was in an emotionally difficult place and needed some kind of emotional comfort even if it was just a hug. As a husband it's kind of his obligation to provide that comfort to the extent Keiko needed it.

    It's true Keiko's brain chemistry was different but all her memories and her built up habits and behavioral reactions are still there. The difference in brain chemistry would have changed her feelings and reactions but philosophically speaking would not change who she was at her core.

    I mean, it's a show about mankind putting principle before instinct. I'd like to think, in the long run, O'Brien would have adjusted to Keiko having the form of a much younger person.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  2. SignGuyHPW

    SignGuyHPW Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It was kind of an uncomfortable moment. I don't think Keiko was really understanding the awkwardness it would pose to Miles. I don't think ANY of them realised that the crew would be a little uncomfortable with children replacing the adult officers they knew. It'd be instinct for them to initially treat them as children except for Data I would imagine.
     
  3. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    There was a TV series "Little People, Big World" some years back. The females age normally, like anyone else. The only difference is that they're shorter and sometimes suffer chronic musculo-skeletal problems.

    Ever read the first 3 Dune books by Frank Herbert? The characters of Alia, Leto, and Ghanima Atreides all had adult consciousnesses in children's bodies. Mind you, they were born that way.

    Miles might have had problems early on, but as Keiko matured physically, he should eventually get over it. The real problem would be Keiko's relationship to her own daughter, Molly. That would likely take a longer time to sort out, while Miles would probably be unconsciously thinking of both of them as his daughters.

    I never liked adult Keiko, so this could have been a golden opportunity for her to grow up again into a nicer person!

    That scene where Riker and Picard hug is just priceless! :lol:
     
  4. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    She was a bit of a shrew, wasn't she?
     
  5. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Yep. She always put down Miles' choices, from food to hobbies to friends. I was actually surprised that she didn't send him a "Dear Miles" letter from Bajor, telling him how boring he was and that she'd found happiness among the plants (and a new guy who didn't eat porridge and all the other Northern European foods she despised). No wonder Miles preferred to spend his spare time with Julian!
     
  6. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I honestly never felt any chemistry between them. Nada.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A "homunculus," a perfectly proportioned small person.

    (thank you big bang theory)

    There's also the likelihood that Keiko had a intact hymen again, and so would physically "lose" her virginity to Miles.

    :devil:
     
  8. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Yup... That's where this thread didn't need to go^
     
  9. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    It was only a matter of time.
     
  10. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...And there it is: a brand new low.
     
  11. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    ETA: In regard to the Picard and Riker hugging scene...
    That scene was hysterical.
     
  12. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    And.... there it is. We're now on Chris Hannsen's watch list and now have to notify our neighbors when we move in. Thanks for that. There was zero call to go there.
     
  13. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Creepy

    Now Colm's character Durant in Hell on Wheels wouldn't have cared--or at least some of the folks then.


    I think you had child brides in ancient times--but they were actually in waiting--arrainged pre-planned things...


    Then too a hundred years ago, people married young because they died young. I heard it said that the woman in one of the more famous dust-bowl photographs was actually only in her 20's. And there was that Couples therapy woman who was a teen bridge who actually looked in her 30's


    I still think of myself as a teenager--and yet there are folks who look older than me who are a decade younger. Hormones in milk I guess.


    Something that might even be stranger than the situation in question here is this. I think one of our Presidents offered a pension not just for Civil War vets but their spouses. Now some of you have heard of the tale of the worlds oldest living confederate widow.


    No, they don't remember the civil war, they were just forced by their poor parents (or starvation) to marry some old creep for survival. The groom would do the bride the very great favor of dying--although there have been tales of the girls then having consorts more there own age--in case the wedding was just for title.


    If not the girl would have children early in life, and when they grew up, she could be independantly wealthy, one way or the other.


    I'm thinking that the suffragettes we all imagine to be wearing big dresses and driving the old phone booth type electric cars were the result of such odd pairings--and their disgust actually helped Womens Rights. Only with that pension and the death of overbearing husbands could independant action exist...go figure.



    Now I seem to remember a C-SPAN author, a woman who talked about a native american nation that encouraged mediocrity. If you loved a violin too much, you were to smash it. They had an odd habit of keeping young folks of different genders apart. You don't need a youth culture to detach and form--or you get unwanted pregnancies. Thier solution--of all things, was for the first...um..experience of each young man to be with a much much older woman and vice versa.


    Now all of us grew up in the post Lewis Carrol days with extended childhoods. Now, you have to graduate college and be in mid to late 20s before you are a real person--also un-natural with respect to biology. In the middle ages, children were painted as little adults--maybe this is what the Governor meant by "Men and Woeman" in THE WALKING DEAD.


    Let's hope it doesn't get back to that.
     
  14. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    This echoes my thoughts on the matter. It would be awkward at first, but she's still an adult, still his wife, and still the same, intellectually and emotionally. He could adjust.
     
  15. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    But she isn't *exactly* the same emotionally. The hormones of a pre-teen to teenage girl are very different than the hormones of an adult woman. That's have a pretty big impact on her emotions as she grew-up.
     
  16. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Except that she retained all of her emotional intellect. She's just in a younger body. Remember, this is Star Trek technomagic, where DNA de-evolves you and re-evolves you in the same episode.
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But Keiko isn't just in "a younger body," she is now physically a child. It's not like she's suddenly twenty-one again.

    What if instead she were four years old. Still okay?

    :devil:
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wow... if that's okay the future is pedo friendly as long as you have access to a transporter....
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  19. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I don't think I even understand this thread.

    It's been a couple decades since I saw the episode, but I don't remember sex even having anything to do with this scene. As I recall, the scene was simply Miles being uncomfortable showing affection to Keiko, prompting the two to wonder if their relationship could transcend Keiko's physical transformation. Molly didn't recognize Keiko as her mother and Miles had a hard time seeing her as his wife. I don't think either Miles or Keiko were worried about "getting off." That wasn't the issue, it was how they were going to preserve their relationship and their family, or if they were going to have to readjust Keiko's role in the family. There was no dilemma about whether or not they should have sex.
     
  20. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Read a newspaper lately? There are child brides in the Middle East. The most recent example I can think of is a 10-year-old who died when her much-older bridegroom decided he couldn't wait 8 or 10 years to consummate the marriage. She was so badly injured, it killed her.

    Also, there are a couple of Mormon offshoot groups who regularly traffick in child brides. They take young girls across the Canada/US border, and when the Canadian authorities try to stop it, the leaders of these groups wail about "freedom of religion". Apparently freedom of religion trumps minor things like age of consent, statutory rape, etc.

    Of course sex was a part of it. Or are you imagining that Miles wasn't in the slightest way wondering what would happen to his sex life if he had to wait for his formerly physically adult wife to grow up all over again? And the Miles O'Brien we knew is an honorable man who would never take advantage of a child - even if the child wanted it. To him, it just wouldn't be the right thing to do. Period. Therefore, he was uncomfortable.

    If TNG had been on one of the cable channels where the standards are more relaxed, they could have gone further into this issue with a line or two of dialogue. The regular network standards wouldn't have allowed that, so the audience is left to extrapolate for themselves that Miles was indeed feeling uncomfortable at physically interacting as a husband with a female who was physically a child.