The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Mach5, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just came across this:

    [​IMG]
    Love to hear your thoughts.
     
  2. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    I don't think it would be immoral since she is still the same person and mental age, but if Miles was anything like me, there's no way he could have done it. Too much of an ick factor.
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    O'brien seemed to think so and was very uncomfortable about it. Cuddling, hugging, comforting and so forth I can see as no problem.... engaging in intercourse with a ten year old body however... is just creepy at best.

    Even in TNG, the O'brien Must Suffer factor was there.
     
  4. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    And just think of the arguments later. Would Keiko ever be able to look at him the same if he had. Jesus, just posting in this thread makes me feel uncomfortable.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Would it be immoral? No, not at all. Would it be weird? Holy cow, yes. It's probably the kind of thing that would take quite some time to even start discussing the possibility.
     
  6. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    I know what you mean.
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I think the production, and Colm Meaney in particular, played it in the only acceptable way possible. I'm sure it raised eyebrows when first read by the cast.

    What was the source of the image? A book? A website?
     
  8. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with all of you. Weird, awkward, icky, creepy... but not really immoral. Keiko's being married made the whole situation more serious for her than for the other people affected.

    I know it's not a very popular episode, but I've always liked it, if only for the way Ro Laren had a chance to be a playful child for the first time.
     
  9. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    There was a similar situation I ran into myself in college theatre. One of the girls on campus was 20, but she was what used to be described as a midget (not a dwarf). Technically, she had proportionate dwarfism, with no deformities of the body. She easily could have been mistaken for a 12 year old child, and frequently got carded going to movies. I helped her with an assignment she had to perform, which was a love scene where she's trying to seduce the guy (from Arthur Kopit's Oh Dad, Poor Dad, Mamma's Hung You in the Closet and I'm Feelin' So Sad). Everyone else she'd asked for help turned her down. It was a very uncomfortable situation, though she was my age.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  10. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    O'Brien: "What if we modified the transporter to return everyone to their early-20s bodies? Eh? Why do I ask? Um, no reason..."
     
  11. Chensams

    Chensams Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that's really creepy.
     
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Keiko's clearly capable of consent though her form seemed distinctly pre-puberty so I'm not sure how it would have worked.

    Hugging and having adult conversations certainly is not wrong but I think puberty is a cutoff for the sexual situation. If it were a permanent situation, and Keiko was through puberty, I think O'Brien would have adjusted to it.

    I don't think I'd have hangups with a little person my age though, no matter how old she really looked. I'd just hope she'd have the sense to wear an adult hairstyle and other signals of obvious adulthood. What do female little people do so people don't see them as children? Males can grow beards, but females don't have that option. Remembering that episode of 30 Rock with Tyrian...
     
  13. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the puberty thing is big. In truth, she would NOT be the same person emotionally, because her hormones would be so different.
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Certainly true, if you want to invoke real world endocrinology for this situation. :vulcan:
     
  15. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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  16. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How can you have an adult consciousness in a kid's body anyway. Isn't your entire brain different?
     
  17. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This.
     
  18. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I think it's likely the brain was, largely, unaffected. That's to say it was "wired the same" even if the chemistry was off due to the age of the bodies. You're right that the brain of a child is different that of the brain of an adult but that's all from decades of re-wiring as we age. The transported accident only removed the genetic-babble that made them physically adult. I doubt this would have impacted the make-up of the brain.

    Preteen Keiko may have had slightly more unstable moods due to wacky teenage-girl hormones but by-and-large she'd be the same person.

    As for the "situation" O'Brien couldn't be blamed too much for being uncomfortable but it's likely after time they would have adjusted and found a balance that made it work. Any physical encounters likely would have waited until Keiko's body matured more and O'Brien got over any societal ickiness over it. Society itself likely wouldn't give their situation a second glance considering the kind of world they live in. She could be in with aliens and all kind of goofy shit being possible, O'Brien could explain to any second-glancers with a "transporter accident." Looker: "Ah! Gotcha!" and then they nod at one another and continue on their way.
     
  19. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    THIS

    If Keiko's mental capacity was the same, then how was she not able to see the absolute awful discomfort of the situation before beginning to act on it in the first place? "Maybe my husband won't want to cuddle with the 10 year old me" Hmm, there's a thought

    I had thought about that when I first saw it & concluded that they don't even know the full extent of the effect. Perhaps, as they were exposed to prepubescent body chemistry, it would begin having an effect on their mind too. Ultimately they could have begun acting more like kids again, instead of walking around drinking Earl Grey & tugging on your jacket
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrst8gmd9Cw[/yt]