The Host and Continuity

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Bry_Sinclair, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Although the Trill were introduced in "The Host", much of what was established there was overwritten by DS9, from their appearance, to how the joining is more balanced and less the Symbiont dominating the Host, transporters are harmful, reassociation, as well as how the Joined nature of some Trill isn't a mystery (Sisko was friends with Curzon for decades, Bashir knew about them in "Emissary").

    So where does that leave the original episode? It's something that I've been pondering on for a day or two.

    In my fanfic continuity, I have retconned the original look of the Trill in favour of the spotted variety (seeing as how they were better established) and stick more closely to DS9's portrayal, whilst the transporters harming Joined Trill may be so for a small minority, but for most it isn't an issue.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    "The Host" establishes that a Trill host can look like just about anything: we see two ridge-faced individuals, but also one beard-faced fellah from the species H.sapiens. DS9 is simply consistent with that, by introducing another new look among the many.

    As for a "balanced" joining, I don't really see signs of that in DS9. The slug just plain takes over and has fun with the host body. At most, Dax sometimes bothers with using the name of the host. Perhaps Odan did that on weekends, too?

    And "transporters harming" was bullshit from the get-go. Odan just didn't want a transporter operator using his parasite filter and exposing Odan's secret that way. Odan and Dax alike could beam safely by informing the transporter operator beforehand - and would die alike if failing to inform him.

    There aren't different sorts of Trill. There is just one sort, the ugly slug. The rest is mere decoration and subterfuge. Sometimes the slugs take ridgeheaded or bearded hosts, but generally they prefer the Lexus of humanoids, the spotted Kriosian species (many individuals of which live on planet Trill and are considered Trill by citizenship, regardless of their species). And they blatantly lie to their hosts about how crucial the various parameters are for a proper match, so that they could keep on choosing as they please.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't think of a single example of the symbiote completely dominating the host in DS9.

    All of Dax's hosts have wildly varying personalities, which would seemingly preclude Dax being the sole pilot.
     
  4. Sandoval

    Sandoval Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's just a bit of a retcon like everything else - in The Host the symbiont took over the host's body, in DS9 it's a merging of the two.

    No need to over-think it too much, just the evolution of a concept when it jumped from a one-shot TNG episode to being used regularly in DS9.
     
  5. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Jadzia's case it might have been a slower take over than Timo is describing, Jadzia did over time transform into the "Klingon Party-girl." That is not the Jadzia we first saw, and may have been an example of Dax gradually asserting itself upon Jadzia's personality, over writing it.

    Given a few more years of DS9, Ezra herself might have transformed into another copy of the "Klingon Party-girl.'

    To be fair, the slug took over Riker. It's hard to say if the slug cold take over the species of the female who was the third host in that episode.

    Some have described her initial demeaner as "stiff." Instead I was describe it as "scared." Her situation was similar to Ezra's. She was the only suitable long term host in range and the circumstances choose her. She might not have wanted to be a host at all, civic duty took over.

    :)
     
  6. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    Wasn't this retconed in the books somehow?
     
  7. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Well, we saw that Odan was waving the technodoodle thing over his belly, so it may be that the symbiont was recovering from some medical procedure and that had weakened it to a point where the transporter would kill it.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If you're referring to the appearance, yes it was:

    A strain of the Klingon Augment virus manages to infect a Trill colony. That's why some Trill hosts had ridges.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've heard it said that Riker was completely taken over because he wasn't Trill and couldn't form a symbiosis with the symbiant. Sorta makes sense.
     
  10. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    He iust wanted to ad Crusher to his list.
     
  11. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sure I read/saw somewhere that the original idea for Dax was a wise old sage in a young woman's body, but over time they realised that she was the kind of person who was always up for an adventure, so her character changed over time.

    It kind of fits as well, seeing as how adjusting to being Joined would take time and adjustment to find the balance between both halves and all the previous lives.
     
  12. Sandoval

    Sandoval Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This sort of need to explain away stuff done by the makeup department just makes me shake my head...
     
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, enough with the fanwanking.

    Next we're going to be hearing about how the Enterprise was using a new weapons system based on the Cardassian Dreadnaught with torpedoes that are equipped with warp engines, phasers and other cool stuff, and they were using one in "Darmok". Unfortunately, when the phaser systems went offline, the only phaser emitter they had was on their experimental torpedo, which was unfortunately stuck in the torpedo tube because geordi had got the measurements wrong. Luckily they were able to fire the phaser beam from the spiffy torpedo out through the end of the torpedo launcher, and that's why we see phaser fire coming from the torpedo tube.

    Geez, just let it go, people!!!
     
  14. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    Dax does mention in one ep (I'd have to look it up - it's one of the earlier ones where she's helping to train an initiate) that the grueling nature of the training is an unpleasant necessity, to ensure that the symbiont's traits don't dominate the host's. She also mentions in the same episode that she still gets echoes and sensations associated with those of her former hosts, and not specifically with Jadzia. Those traits can surface in some ways even in the most ideal balance for a joined Trill, and presumably is just part of the experience.
     
  15. Sandoval

    Sandoval Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Amen brother.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    They should have just called the spieces on DS9 something completely new instead calling it Trill. It wouldn't have been hard to invent a new species similar to the Trill their symbiotes. Way to many recons happened by trying to make it fit.
     
  17. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    It only took one. There was an another?
     
  18. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly. I think sometimes we all forget that these are just TV shows.

    I agree. Once they decided the forehead makeup wasn't what they wanted and the no-transporting thing was impractical, they should have just renamed it.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    To the contrary, I think DS9 dropped the ball in not being even more innovative and contrarian with its approach of what "Trill" means. The no-transporting thing was an obvious untruth and obfuscation in "The Host" already, and no obstacle even at the conclusion of the episode - and the TNG piece also laid the groundwork for there being an infinite number of potential host species. The spots were fine for Jadzia Dax, but the stories would have benefited from our heroes never knowing which face would go with a tummy that held a Trill. The concept of a "host species" was the unnecessary one, and rather uninteresting in the end.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    I don't understand how you think this would work unless the host changed every few episodes. Could you give an example of the sor of story you mean? A description in a few sentences?

    Unnecessary? I can't think of another way to pass on several lifetimes of experiences from one body to another without invoking some kind of magic.