''The Holiest Thing'' (Star Trek Phase 2)

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Bixby, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    Dundee, Scotland, UK
    Actually I'm being quite polite with you. As I said, if you have concerns, I'd suggest the wisest course of action is to address it to the people in question, not start malicious rumours on a discussion board. That has nothing to do with my likes or dislikes, and everything to do with common courtesy.

    As others have pointed out already, there is no mystery, there is no conspiracy, and there is no money. Now relax, and go watch something else while you wait. :)
     
  2. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    New York, New York
    I have no contact with Phase II, but I am going to reply to a few things here:
    1) They are moving their sets. When doing other things, their website is often neglected and goes down. It also happens during shoots.
    2) They almost closed down a few years ago because they are strict about making not even expenses and were broke. I personally begged that the seek donations before they closed, and that seems to have worked. Nobody who works in Phase II is a multi-millionaire who easily can lay out thousands.
    3) They are in a remote area. It's actually a few hours drive from either Albany, NY to the south or from Montreal, Canada to the north. The area is truly rural bordering on wilderness. They lose power from time to time, too.
    4) They posted a rather complete explanation about the delay about The Holiest Thing on Facebook. In essence, they had a problem in the original transfer which put them back to square one. There is going to be a long delay.

    All the above is not recent OR it's not personal stuff I got, only stuff I read.

    Finally, a personal note. I realize some of you are atheists, and most faiths don't consider speculating nasty things to be a sin, but mine does. It's called (translating) 'speaking evil'... most gossip falls under this roof. I don't believe what you say is true, but you wouldn't be writing it if you weren't hoping people would think badly of Phase II. If you had another reason, you'd have addressed your comments to them. As far as I'm concerned, you have the RIGHT to speak evil, but it's a sin.
     
  3. Froissart

    Froissart Ensign Red Shirt

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    Ideas and theories do not = rumours People who come in here and dont take the time to read the entire post and twist my words and spread it around thats rumours.No mystery..almost 2 months of no info to me is a mystery.Im sorry if my way of thinking is not the same as yours.Patience , tolerance , understanding and acceptance is what makes humanity great.The world would be a much better place if this was practiced more.
     
  4. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    You're not posting theories you're posting wild speculation, despite the fact that people have actually answered your questions and pointed out that you are mistaken. You may not think that's harmful or hurtful to the people working on Phase II, but as someone who has worked with these people, I am telling you it is.

    I have been extremely patient, tolerant and polite with you. So you may wish to turn that mirror on yourself. And on that note I will bid you a good day.
     
  5. Froissart

    Froissart Ensign Red Shirt

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    Sir to let you know i have spent 23 years taking facts and coming up with as many ideas as i can with them,it my job its what i do,i didnt mean to hurt anyone and i did state how great i think Phase 2 and crew are.Now with that aside there is 1 fact for sure that came from this,that the people at Newvoyages.de are making money form the hard work of the phase 2 team.Maybe someone should pass this info along.
     
  6. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Hollywood, CA
    Maybe that person should be you. Maybe you should be having this conversation with the people at Phase II, and not here.

    Look, as others here will attest, I've been at times downright vicious in my criticism of Phase II for how they conduct themselves sometimes, but this is just stupid. If you have an issue with them, tell them directly. Leave us out of it.

    Also: Not for nothing, but people like USS Intrepid are a rare breed here. You'll likely not find someone as kind, eloquent or polite even in the most heated of arguments, so maybe take a second and think about what you're doing before you continue to aggravate this discussion even further.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Oh bother...

     
  8. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Clearly, your idea of 'facts' is a very loose one. Whatever you make up is a fact. Many forums and download sites try to cover their expenses with advertisements. The 'fact' you have come up with is a complete invention, put forward to falsely attack the folks who run the German website.
     
  9. northstar

    northstar Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You probably forget the fact that Continues made over 100K last year for their episodes. Phase2 hasn´t a fraction of that money, as far as I know every little bit has to be collected by donations of members and fans. I´m sure if they had that kind of money, we would already have a lot more episodes!
     
  10. spocksbrain

    spocksbrain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's tempting to blame it on funding, but even someone not in any way involved with any production, like myself, can see that Phase II has major flaws (i.e., I'm not expert in the business, and even I can see, just from plain old common sense, that they do it wrong). For example, at any given time, they are working on three or four different episodes. They constantly post about filming or wrapping filming or otherwise working on some future episode, while the one that's supposed to come next still hasn't come out yet. Instead of working on multiple episodes, when they average less than one episode per year, work on only one episode at a time and get that one done, then start work on the next one. How f-ing obvious is that? But it's not to them, and that's why Phase II has far bigger problems than just money. Another obvious issue is their focus on getting "real" Star Trek actors and actresses (despite the fact that they are a thousand years old at this point) and "real" writers and so forth, and the actual story comes second. The Child, Blood and Fire, and that one where James had to make out with an 80 year old woman, I can't remember the name of it, are all good examples of big names but the writing and story just didn't come out, especially when The Child was already done on TNG and Blood and Fire was just plain boring.
     
  11. feek61

    feek61 Captain Captain

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    To clarify; Continues had 2 episodes in the can before the Kickstarter. Trust me, generally in these fanfilm productions there are many more issues than lack of money.
     
  12. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    At Star Trek Phase II, we’ve been at this for over ten years now. We’ve had nine full-length episodes (“Come What May,” “In Harm’s Way,” “To Serve All My Days,” “World Enough and Time,” “Blood and Fire, Part 1,” “Blood and Fire, Part 2,” “Enemy: Starfleet!,” “The Child,” and “Kitumba,” ), three short vignettes (“Center Seat,” “No Win Scenario,” and “Boldly Going”) and two full-length episodes still in post-production (“Bread and Savagery” and “The Holiest Thing”).

    Our brethren at Star Trek Continues have, to date, released two full-length episodes (“Pilgrim of Eternity” and “Lolani”) and three short vignettes (“Turnabout Intruder,” “You’ve Got the Conn,” and “Happy Birthday, Scotty”), with one full-length episode in post-production.

    It will be interesting to check out Star Trek Continues’ in the year 2024 to see what their total collective output has been ten years hence.

    An FYI: Ms. Barbara Luna from TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror" (and so much else!) was 71 years old at the time the Star Trek Phase II episode "Enemy: Starfleet!" was lensed.

     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  13. RCAM

    RCAM Commander Red Shirt

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    I think some of the criticisms of Phase II are fair (to varying degrees). I think the quality of the writing has been lacking at times. "Blood and Fire," and "Enemy: Starfleet" stand out as the weakest scripts (though I also found parts of "Kitumba" baffling), and were quite frankly difficult to sit through. Additionally, Phase II has placed -- in my personal opinion -- far too much emphasis on trying to involve Trek alumni. And the obsession with "continuity" goes without saying.

    I also think it's legitimate to criticize Phase II's tendency to be working three episodes ahead of what they've actually released. Delaying a show that was meant to be out in February to film new content seems like a strange way to do business to me (I'm not in "The Business," so that's just a layman's observation).

    Additionally, their communication with the audience can sometimes be lacking. It's not that they "owe" interested parties updates, since they aren't primarily donation-funded; it's just bad marketing if they want to build the largest, most enthusiastic following possible.

    I do commend them for transitioning toward having professional actors. While James Cawley had a great vision and should be commended for all he did to help catalyze the fan film movement, his one-note, scowling performances could really take you out of an episode. I'll be very interested to see how Brian Gross embodies the character in "The Holiest Thing."

    All of that said, there's a lot to like here too. These guys clearly care about what they're doing; the passion is always evident. They helped light the way for future Trek fan films with professional-quality production values, including the excellent STC series.

    And while "Lolani" edges it out just slightly for me, "World Enough and Time" stands as one of the great fan film entries of all time. A brilliant script with something truly meaningful to say. WEAT doesn't use a Trek alumnus just to use him; there's an excellent story that nullifies any "stunt casting" complaints. It's an amazing artistic achievement of which the folks at Phase II should be very proud.

    There's some great people working on it too. Greg is a class act, and one of the reasons this board is so enjoyable to post on.

    I, like many others, look forward to "The Holiest Thing" and wish Phase II nothing but success. The more quality Trek, the better.
     
  14. JT Perfecthair

    JT Perfecthair Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    By upgrading the ship, Phase2 removes one of TOS' greatest stars, that era of USS Enterprise. While there is obviously a time period between the end of TOS and the start of TMP, I think they overestimate anyones interest in it. Also, while I really look forward to Bread and Savagery I foresee some real troubles doing Mind Sifter.

    Lets face it, that's a very heavy story and it only worked in book form where you can tone down the imagery yourself, in filmed form I think it would be like the Khan ear worm sequence going on for 45 minutes.

    Whatever the issues with their earlier episodes I don't think Cawley as Kirk was ever the problem and (other than this one ;)) I wish he'd learn to ignore youtube and forum comments and keep doing the part.

    As for what is the Phase 2 pinnacle, I say it was the first version of the Chekov episode with the wonderful original music and before they chickened out on the ending.
     
  15. jamesmc

    jamesmc Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Certainly the biggest problem for us is in post production and the lack of people needed to do that type of work to complete an episode. Sadly, we just don't have the needed volunteers with skills to do all the things necessary. VOLUNTEERS and SKILLS are the key words here. Without those we have to reach out and raise funds to actually get the work done. Making these things has always been a challenge, and balancing all the different personalties alone is a full time job. This is not easy, and 1o years has been a long haul, and we are still moving forward, doing things the best we know how to do them. Sometimes against very difficult odds. Peace.
    James Cawley
     
  16. Dennis

    Dennis The Man Premium Member

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    Thanks, James. :)
     
  17. Bixby

    Bixby Captain Captain

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    Well actually, here Phase 2 is following the correct tactic. And for your information, Star Trek Continues is ALSO following that M.O., because you can't actually be telling me that STC started production for their 3rd episode the day after Lolani premiered (feb. 9th), got an approved script as well as exhaustive pre-production done before first day of shooting in mid-march? That would be ridiculous! Rather they worked on this episode at the same time as their second show, perhaps even during their first...

    Back to Phase 2, yes they have a few episodes clogged up in their pipeline, AND? I praise them for even GETTING that far. It's relatively easy enough to assemble a camera cast and crew for a 1 to 2 week shoot, as you have many people there to support you and pull together when the weather, bad tempers, lack of equipment throws a monkey wrench into the works.

    But post-production, like it or not, is often done at each step by very few people, and when they do this for no money or little money, delays are sometimes inevitable.

    In the past I worked on a 26 episode show where everything went mostly according to schedule...until 2 specific episodes in the middle of the pipeline that were handled by subcontractors. And try as we might to get the footage corrected and up to standards, the service studio just wouldn't do all the work they were supposed to do. Weeks went by and because of their unwillingness I was sent to China for 2 months to actually get the work done. By the time I was back in North America and the 2 episodes finally went through the post-production process until they were broadcast-ready, a whole 6 months past the original schedule.

    And THAT's with people working full-time on a show and an actual budget to take care of all expected and unexpected problems...

    They only film once a year, in early summer. They're located in upstate New York so of course they need to schedule their shoots during the warm season because, unlike STC and their bottle shows, they actually shoot outdoors. And also their crew is all-volunteer, so a summer shoot fits in with their vacation-time.

    Post-production is a long process. And look, STC decided to go FX-lite for their first three episodes. I think Pilgrim and Lolani probably have an average 10 to 20 FX shots in their episodes, relatively simple ones, while PHASE 2 episodes, whether you like them or not, are far more ambitious FX-wise with dozens of complicated shots. Those take time (ask the boys at Starship Exeter about that).

    Sure, Phase 2 does stunt-casting. And STC ALSO does stunt-casting, unless you're blind to that: Marina Sirtis, Apollo from BSG, Lou Ferrigno, Young Boba Fett...You'll probably argue that STC does it better, well getting ''known'' actors costs money in case you didn't know, and STC's cast and guests and PHASE 2's Kirk probably have to be paid scale wages if they're SAG members...

    You mean pandering to their audience? I think the Phase 2 crew does just fine as is. I appreciate greatly to see James Cawley responding in this thread, but he needn't have. Occasional updates are just fine and they don't need to have daily polls and quizzes like the STC Facebook, on its way to rival Disney's FB as far as pandering goes...

    Look, I may be coming across as an STC hater but that's really not the case. I think BOTH productions are very worthy, with different things that I like for each studio. I just find it hilarious to see members here comparing the two on the same basis, when apart from each featuring their version of Kirk and the Enterprise, it's still very much like comparing the proverbial apples and oranges...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  18. startrekphase2

    startrekphase2 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Let me introduce myself, I am Peter Walker and I run www.startrekphase2.de with the assistance of Stephan Mittelstrass. That website is the official download mirror for the UK and Germany and is also the central download location for all New Voyages/Phase II episodes with subtitles in multiple languages. The website itself is available in English, German, French and Spanish.

    I have been made aware of this thread so I joined this forum to give a response. NOBODY makes a profit on Star Trek Phase II, including us. The rules of what we can and cannot do in regard to covering our costs are clearly laid out. The website we run does involve costs for the high speed root server and the many Terrabytes of downloads incurred each month by people downloading our episodes.
    • All episodes are provided completely free and at high speed from our website.
    • There is no requirement to pay us a penny or click on any adverts to see or download our episodes.
    • We do not ask or encourage people to click on any adverts.

    There are a limited number of adverts on our website to help offset our costs. This generates a small amount of revenue which is used entirely to help cover the running of the website and other related costs. Nobody profits from this, it just reduces our losses somewhat. Simply visiting our website and watching an episode does not give us a penny. Only clicks on the adverts result in a few cents being sent our way.

    Adverts on the website are one of the very few legitimate ways we can use to help offset our costs. We do not and never will charge to watch or download any of our episodes.

    The money from the adverts allows us, for example, to provide high speed download links. The alternative would be to place the episodes for download on one of those download sites that give you very slow free downloads (typically 4 hours per episode) and constantly nag you to pay for high-speed downloads. If you would prefer that, we could consider moving all our episodes to such websites and remove the adverts from our website. Is that what you would prefer?

    However, then it would be those websites that would be profiting from all our work as many people would then pay instead of waiting hours to download in the free, yet slow way they offer.

    We have put considerable time and effort into building up www.startrekphase2.de to be a high quality source of all episodes provided with subtitles in many languages (I personally create the English subtitles). The German mirror website is owned by me personally, not the Phase II people in the USA who have granted us permission to represent them.

    We are also responsible for promoting Phase II in the UK and Germany including at events like www.fedcon.de which is Europe's largest Star Trek convention (starts in a few days).

    I trust I have now answered your concerns in this matter.

    Regards

    Peter
     
  19. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Anyone who pays for a episode that is free online is a fool. Where the illegal stuff happens is at some Star Trek Conventions (especially outside the U.S.) where people make DVD's of P2 and other fan films and try to sell them to fans at conventions. This especially prevalent in countries that have slow internet speeds make watching online almost impossible. This is a practice that has been unfortunately going on for several years.
     
  20. RCAM

    RCAM Commander Red Shirt

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    Um... yeah. That's kind of what you do in the entertainment world. Or is it coincidence that I get one e-mail a week with "Walking Dead" interviews and updates? What you call pandering, most people would call "Marketing 101."

    I really have a problem with the "don't critique -- just be grateful" attitude. The folks at Phase II are the ones that set the "professional production" expectations. Should people be surprised, then, when the production is critiqued based on that standard?

    Look, when you say you're going to release something on a certain date and then for weeks afterward the website still reads "coming soon [on date that has long since passed]," people will wonder what's going on. It's only natural.

    Is it any skin off my back? No; I'll certainly live. My life will be the same whether Phase II releases ten episodes a year or none. But it's not in their best interest to be silent at such moments if they're trying to build and preserve a following.

    There's such defensiveness about anything resembling criticism of Phase II. I'm impressed by how far they've come, always look forward to their episodes, and wish them nothing but the best. But they're not sacred cows.