The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Skywalker, Dec 8, 2013.

?

How would you grade [i]The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug[/i]?

  1. A+

    6.6%
  2. A

    25.6%
  3. A-

    19.8%
  4. B+

    13.2%
  5. B

    14.0%
  6. B-

    1.7%
  7. C+

    5.8%
  8. C

    6.6%
  9. C-

    2.5%
  10. D+

    2.5%
  11. D

    0.8%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    0.8%
  1. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Morrowind
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    Thorin = Aragorn is valid in a sense, but there's also a parallel between Bard and Aragorn. In that sense the Master is like Denethor. There is also a parallel between Thorin and Boromir.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  2. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I'd say that The Master is more like Denethor. Or does he turn out to be good in the end?
     
  3. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I was thinking more along the lines of the Master's underling being a clear Wormtongue "homage" :lol:
     
  4. Dama47

    Dama47 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    Corner of No & Where, VA
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I really liked DoS, and really enjoyed Bard and Laketown the action/fight sequences, the Dol Guldur subplot and the fantastic effects (all of which are mentioned upthread and I really can't add much to)--and in fact, I didn't mind the liberties taken with the original, or even the length. However, I had serious problems with two things:

    1. The movie assumes you've read the book and are prepared for and accepting of a loose interpretation. A piece from the book is brought in, wow factor is presented, there's a summary of its purpose/feelings/desire, and then an action sequence, which bring us to another bit from the book. Maybe. Take a potty break and you'd miss out entirely. For as long as this movie is, I had expected slightly more more fleshing out. I kept feeling like they'd edited a great script with a hatchet and duct tape and filmed it verbatim.

    2. I was really excited to know the inclusion of another strong female elf in the plot--and this time, an action-oriented character. If we're going to stretch the story, why not include one? Tauriel is made of win, a captain, warrior and an innovative thinker...and her most memorable take-away is relegated to a love story, which--like everything else in the movie--appears with assumptions of acceptance, this time in the form of a highly unusual attraction and completely ignoring Kili's actual duty. (Their fate is certainly predictable--though I'm really, really hoping it won't be all I expect.) It ends up looking like a chunk of dramatic irony, re., Legolas, and a way to chew on Laketown's set a while longer before it all goes up. Arwen's established relationship vs. Eowyn's longing for Aragorn works because it was the actual story and Eowyn grows from it, i.e., it has its place in the whole, but in DoS, it was...meh.

    While I appreciate a little flirtation and adore Tauriel's awareness of her place in and apart from her society, her think-out-the-confines leader, and remain blown away by her part in the action sequences, I think she deserved more--certainly far better than having her character cut short by trouser humor and, worse, a touchy-healing moment whilst Legolas busts his ass outside. Again, I really hope Movie #3 proves me wrong about this direction...but I've watched enough Trek to know it probably won't. ;)

    (ETA: :lol: My autocorrect had a field day with Dol Guldur.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  5. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Somewhere in Connecticut
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    Speaking of potty breaks...I'm planning to see this film soonish, and will probably only catch it once in the theater. So I'm asking those of you who've seen it: If, as is highly likely, I need to leave the theater for a few minutes, is there a particular scene I should try to hold out for?
     
  6. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    You can probably safely leave during the barrels out of bond sequence. The beginning and end of it are important, but it does go on a bit. There's a LOT of pointless action in between that it won't matter if you miss.
     
  7. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Morrowind
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I was going to say the whole Erebor forge sequence, but that's so close to the end...
     
  8. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I would suggest going at the scene when Tauriel visits Kili in the Elf jail. That's when I went :evil:

    The barrel sequence is the best part of the movie!!! :eek:
     
  9. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    But he barrel sequence just goes on and on. It's really cool, to a point, but if you've seen part of it, you've seen it all.
     
  10. Dama47

    Dama47 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    Corner of No & Where, VA
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I'm sorry to say that once the elves kill some spiders, I think you're safe to stretch your legs for a few minutes. Thranduil is a snotty bore. The only interesting thing he did was snivel at Taurien, and that only takes a minute, if that.

    If you'd rather chew the interiors (half of the fun I have at movies like these are disseminating the sets--I'm that kind of geek), when they get in the barrels, you've got a few minutes before it at least looks interesting again.
     
  11. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Location:
    A deserted gin joint on the Lower East Side
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I saw the film for a second time this afternoon and once again thoroughly enjoyed it. Smaug is incredible. Lake Town is well-done. And I loved the additions of Legolas and Tauriel. And yet, strictly speaking, the film needed some editing for the cinematic experience (the action sequences - barrels, forges, Lake Town - didn't have to be quite as long as they were and the film could likely have been trimmed to just over two hours without axing any complete scenes). But since I enjoy the movie world of Middle Earth as much as I do, I appreciate the added time spent there. And I am looking forward to the inevitable Extended Edition. I suppose I'm being a bit of a glutton, but ultimately, I'm sticking with my B+ rating.

    While the "love story" is rather prominent (I actually enjoyed it), I took more away from Tauriel's insistence on doing the right thing against evil. She stood up to Thranduil for her beliefs, and inspired Legolas to act on them. To me, that was far more prominent than her flirtations with Kili.
     
  12. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Location:
    sidious618
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    Holy crap that was way too long. There were some great scenes but so much extraneous stuff that it lost a lot of impact.
     
  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Somewhere in Connecticut
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Since there's no consensus, I'll have to make a judgment call if and when my bladder starts chiming in. I'm leaning towards Mr Light's suggestion, since that's the new material and sounds like exactly the sort of scene that I'd go to the bathroom during in the LOTR films.
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Morrowind
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    Just wear a diaper, that way you won't have to miss anything.
     
  15. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I was just wondering what new material we're going to see in third film... how much LOTR lead-in will we get?

    --The thing I'm most looking forward to is the White Council assaulting Dol Guldor. That is going to be so incredible! I can't wait to see exactly how the powers of Galadriel, Elrond, Saurman, and Radagast manifest themselves. Will they duel Sauron himself?! That would be so cool!
    --Will we see the Nazgul fighting the White Council at Dol Guldor?
    --Will we see Gandalf and Aragorn hunting Gollum in the wilderness? Gollum being freed from the Elves by the Orcs and taken to Mordor?
    --I think it's a safe bet we will see the spirit of Sauron flying into Barad Dur and Mount Doom bursting into flames.
    --Will we see the White Council dissolving over the issue of Sauron's return and realizing they're powerless to stop him? Will we see Saurman seeking the Ring for himself and becoming ensnared by the palantir?
    --Will we see Balin leading an expedition to Moria and awakening the Balrog? (it's kinda superfluous but it would be awesome to see, plus it would be showing the fate of a major character of THIS trilogy).
     
  16. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Location:
    A deserted gin joint on the Lower East Side
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I, too, am very much looking forward to the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur. But I'm not so sure we'll be seeing any more of Saruman (I guess it depends on how much footage they shot of him way back when). If I had to guess, we'll see Galadriel, Radagast, and maybe Elrond assisting Gandalf at Dol Guldur. An appearance of "The Nine" would likewise be welcome, given Gandalf's trek to their tombs. My fear, though, is that Saruman will be given short shrift (yet again).

    It makes sense that we'll get some closing shots of Barad-Dur and Moria. But unless it's the best kept secret in a long while, we won't be seeing Aragorn, much less his hunt for Gollum (which, I would love to see - but I will probably have to content myself with this fairly well-done fan production).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Somewhere in Connecticut
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I'm not that old yet. And from what I've been hearing, there's plenty that one can miss in this film...I just want to go in knowing what.
     
  18. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I gotta say, having Sauron as a shadowy entity that actually speaks to his underlings is vastly superior to the silent floating eyeball of the LOTR movies... who wants a LOTR Special Edition? :lol:
     
  19. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    This is interesting... according to IMDB, "The love triangle between Kili, Tauriel and Legolas was not a part of the original footage that was shot in 2011. It was added by studio request during re-shoots in 2012. "

    So I guess originally Tauriel was just a conscientious objector secretly in love with Legolas. I wonder if the whole "Kili shot with Morgul dart and is dying and stays behind in Laketown and gets attacked by Orcs" subplot was added in the three movie reshoot as well? I doubt it since they would have had to had removed those 3-4 dwarves from all the subsequent Erebor sequences.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Grading & Discussion (Spoile

    I'm pretty sure it was actually the Tauriel/Legolas stuff (which still seemed pretty one-sided to me, on Legolas' part) that was added in the reshoots. I think the attraction between Kili and Tauriel was part of the story from the very beginning.