The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Skywalker, Dec 6, 2012.

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How would you grade [i]The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey[/i]?

  1. A+

    32 vote(s)
    16.6%
  2. A

    52 vote(s)
    26.9%
  3. A-

    38 vote(s)
    19.7%
  4. B+

    28 vote(s)
    14.5%
  5. B

    15 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. B-

    9 vote(s)
    4.7%
  7. C+

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  8. C

    8 vote(s)
    4.1%
  9. C-

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  10. D+

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  11. D

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  12. D-

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  13. F

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  1. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    For me, the argument that 24 fps is "more cinematic" is silly. Its just something we've HAD for a 100 years. That's all. It's something that we are used to. We've been trained to accept as HOW films should look.

    But WHY, why does motion blue equal more cinematic?

    As far as it being "to realistic," I think as the technology improves, along with the cinematography, costumes and etc, I don't think that will be a problem.

    And to be honest, I would LOVE it if it felt like a stage play. Stage plays, for me, are a more intimate experience, a more immediate experience.. For me, a stage play is watching something happen right in front of me, where as a movie at 24 fps is up there on a screen. And to be blunt, I've never lost track that Ian McKellan is playing Gandalf at 24 fps. I'm along for the story, but he doesn't magically literally become Gandalf.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Movies don't look "cinematic" anymore anyways. Digital cameras and digital color grading, all that stuff ruined that long time ago.
     
  3. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    While I don't agree, you do bring up a good question:

    Are digital cameras LESS cinematic than film? There's no grain, which is something we are used to... Is Avatar LESS cinematic than Flight of the Navigator?

    Is film stock MORE cinematic?
     
  4. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    One is not necessarily better than the other, in the absolute sense, but as you indicate, there is a cinematic look, or style if you prefer, that people are used to seeing in 24fps (which, admittedly has always changed and evolved), that is in many ways very different than a stage production. Some people like that style - not just because they are used to it, but because it appeals to them. This isn't new. People are often drawn to a specific artistic style - even when a more "realistic" presentation is available. Else, why black and white photography (or even instagram) when far more realistic captures are available? Why color grading?

    I don't think there's an inherent criticism in going to 48fps (aside, perhaps, from the fact that, specifically for The Hobbit, it changes the aesthetic from LOTR to which The Hobbit is supposed to be explicitly connected) or striving for the most realistic presentation possible. But the question remains, will audiences (will I) want the stage presentation or the "cinematic" (for lack of a better word) presentation? I happen to think it's a fascinating question, and I'm looking forward to seeing 48fps myself to see what my own reaction will be to it.
     
  5. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    The problem is that "cinematic" has no definition. It's a feeling people have. When people say Best of Both Worlds feels like a movie, I don't get it, because for me it absolutely doesn't.
     
  6. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    I think "what is cinematic" is a question that is far too vague. Semantic debates rarely end well (if they ever end :lol:). Better is: How "realistic" should cinema look? When you're in a theater (home or otherwise), is illusion preferable to near-reality? I suppose it all comes down to personal preference. There are people who still prefer 2D over 3D, models and puppets over CGI, b&w over color. But with very few of us actually having seen 48fps yet, it's difficult to say how this new development will fit into the evolution of: "what is cinematic"?
     
  7. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Exactly. If we'd had 48fps for 100 years, and someone decided to try something new and do 24fps, people would be saying the same thing.
     
  8. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    That might sound rational to say, but I don't think it's the actual truth. It only makes sense in syllogistic form
     
  9. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    You're right. We wouldn't want to bring rational thought to a discussion. It IS the internet after all.
     
  10. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Har Har Har but of course you fail to see the actual point I was making.

    But not just me:
    From Den of Geek:
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    That Den of Geek quote is hilarious. It's the typical rant you hear every single time something new is introduced.

    But HFR is to blame?

    Sure it's not the 4K projection that's at fault here?




    btw, anyone a fan of Miami Vice, Collateral and Public Enemies?
     
  12. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Frankly this entire argument reminds me of how people scoffed at Birth of a Nation because in many scenes you couldn't see people's feet or legs. It was a completely ridiculous way to shoot scenes, as obviously films should look like stage plays.

    If your objection to 48 is that it doesn't look blurry and it looks too real, then I have no idea what to say to that because that's kind of the entire point (and also a good thing).

    If your objection is, in the case of the Hobbit, this higher resolution makes the fact the film is fake appear more obviously fake, that sounds more like a problem with the movie, and one which I doubt blur would fix much if at all.
     
  13. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Funny, that Den of Geek quote is exactly the opposite of what everyone else is saying, that the 48fps is making it look more unrealistic and the motion blur is jerky, while everyone else is saying it removes the motion blur and makes everything too realistic <sigh>
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    I guess people don't know what it is exactly that they are criticizing. Again.
     
  15. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Har har har, you weren't making an actual point, other than some claim towards "truth" which any reasonable person couldn't make until they've seen it... And even then... it's still opinion...

    1. Who cares what the Den of Geek says? Is it some sort of statement of fact that I should listen to over anyone else? When do Dens of Geeks become some sort of authority over my own experience?

    2. Again, are we just so used to 24 fps that its going to take time, and certainly better technology, for us to adjust? What is so magical about 24 fps? Its just a number that we are used to. Its a frame rate chosen by technology we no longer use, why should we be beholden to something chosen by people long since dead?
     
  16. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    This thread about revelations in TNG-HD should put that Den of Geek thing into perspective for some. Higher resolution, and you can suddenly see bad prosthetics and zippers and carpet seems and stuff. Some would argue that it takes you totally out of the film, and that it's devilry.
     
  17. Aeronef

    Aeronef Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    :rolleyes:
     
  18. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    It's not, I take?
     
  19. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    Everyone take a breath and step away for awhile, if you feel the need to be this testy.
     
  20. Claudia

    Claudia Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

    I'm not a big fan of the 3d-technology. I'm wearing glasses and having to put on those 3d-glasses over my own... it's uncomfortable and causes headache. So, I've been really looking forward to seeing the Hobbit (and Star Trek, of course, in May) but my enthusiasm has waned quite a bit now. :(