The hate at "Genesis"

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by MikeS, Sep 9, 2013.

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What is wrong with "Genesis"?

  1. It's science is flawed - (d)evolution doesn't work like that

    22.6%
  2. I am a creationist - (d)evolution is a falsehood

    3.2%
  3. It is simply a rubbish episode

    21.0%
  4. I love it

    53.2%
  1. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I don't remember exactly what Spot devolved into, but as all mammals have reptilian ancestors, that makes some modicum of sense. But how does Barclay "devolve" into a spider?
     
  2. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    IIRC Spot devolved into an iguana. (It should be noted into a FULL iguana. Now, obviously this is because in production terms it's easier to get an iguana than it is to glue a punch of iguana-like appliances to a cat but "in-show" it has some implications on the ultimate terminus of the "disease." Spot was a cat, possible a small enough and "simple" enough a creature for the de-evolution to quickly occur. This could mean everyone else would have continued to "de-evolve" until they reached the "full version" of whatever they were becoming. I could be argued that Riker, Nurse Ogawa and Worf were already there. (Which begs the question on why they wouldn't *keep* "de-evolving" from even that. Was the ultimate route of this infection for everyone to become single-celled organisms? Simple proteins? Ehh, I'm sure the transporter or Data cure-all embryonic juice would've brought everyone back to perfect health anyway so we can all have a good laugh at Barclay's insecurities.
     
  3. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe after the Cytherians took him over, some of his DNA was permanently rewritten to resemble theirs and no one noticed it. And maybe the Cytherians were descended from arachnid ancestors, so he devolved into one of them.

    Hey, it makes more sense than the actual episode.
     
  4. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    isn't the point of tv to entertain? if the science isn't comletly accurate who cares?

    if I really wanted a science lesson I would watch a documentary, not a science FICTION tv show
     
  5. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Things should at least make sense, be consistent and, well, not fall apart when thought about for more than a moment. I mean what if in an episode Picard just snapped his fingers, grew wings, and then started riding a magical pony through the galaxy. Hey, who cares as long as it entertains!

    Being entertaining isn't a blank-check to do whatever the hell you want. You have to at least have it make sense and, ideally, an impact.

    I'll accept a "virus" or other infection that can "de-evolve" people (or I guess more accurately mutate people into animals by scrambling DNA.) But it becomes harder and harder to accept it when you forget such an idea has consequences.

    Which is this episode's biggest problem. It completely ignores the consequences this thing would have. Like I said up-thread there are civilians and children on the ship. De-evolved too. This de-evolution reduced the sizes of people's brains. Stuff you just don't "get back."

    But the biggest thing is the humor moment at the end of episode that completely shrugs away everything that happened. Beverly's reconstructive surgery, Worf and Riker killing people, that people ARE dead. That this incident must have had some impact on the children and civilians on the ship but, no, we just have a funny little laugh and forget about all of that.
     
  6. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That would have made the premise of a great episode/two-parter! :)
     
  7. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's preachy when the end to violence means doing things like leaving your citizens at the mercy of your enemies (Fed colonists in the demilitarized zone), revealing military secrets to your enemies (namely the creation of a fed phasing cloak) or having to beg more violent races to do your fighting for you when violence actually becomes necesary (the dominion war). It's arrogant when your method of eliminating greed is eliminating money completely and creating a galactic nanny state. (We're taking away money and giving you replicators because we know what's best for you.)

    But that's our point. Every series of Trek has had episodes with situations that are just as stupid. Kirk and company confronted a solar-system sized amoeba. Ent-D had a baby. A runabout in DS9 got shrunk down to a christmas tree ornament. Janeway and paris turned into monitor lizards and had little monitor lizards. T'Pol turned into a drug addict by shooting up a molten alien alloy.

    Gene Roddenberry once said "make it about the characters", and trek writers then and since have mostly taken that to mean "Hey, it really doesn't have to make sense. it's about the characters."

    And if Picard grew wings and flew a magical pony around the galaxy i'd just call the kids from the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon because that would make him Venger 2.0.:)

    But making it about the characters is that blank check, as I've just described.

    And it's not the first time trek characters have avoided serious consequences. Eliminating a consequence is the sole reason The Search For Spock was made!

    Look, all you're doing is complaining about stuff that exists franchise-wide, not just in this episode. Once you realize that, you should easily be able to take the ep for what it is, a fun next generation horror movie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  8. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    "Genesis" doesn't work on any level, science or character. As already pointed out, even ignoring the laugh-out-loud so-called science the entire story hinges upon, the characters act like idiots. There are some TNG episodes I could think of that I think are good character episodes, but "Genesis" ain't one of them. I'm hard-pressed to think how "Genesis" could even be considered a good character episode.

    The bad stuff that exists franchise-wide doesn't make "Genesis" any better.

    It doesn't even make a good horror movie, unless me laughing at the TV screen is the sign of a good horror movie.
    Well, I suppose the episode is entertaining in a MST3K kind of way.
     
  9. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    :D Ladies and gentlemen, the My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Season 5 opening two-parter!
     
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wonder a wonderful way to tie up the whole saddle subplot. ;)
     
  11. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    Concerning the lack of consequences...

    Come on, how many TNG episodes did actually HAVE lasting consequences after the episode itself?

    Examples:

    Data loses his child. When he got the emotion chip, why didn´t we see sadness about loosing her? No we get an out of place "it´s green" joke instead...

    Picard and Crusher shared a telepathic bond and we see a romance forming that....is pretty much forgotten right the next episode.

    Picard is assimilated and brought back. Doesn´t seem like this affected any of the crew members...

    The episode where Troi loses her emphatic abilities...this should have created a long lasting trauma for her...she f-ing lost part of what forms her beeing.
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But it does make Genesis "typical."

    Coincidentally available in Hallmark stores in time for the Holidays?

    Except they weren't responsible, they were under the influence of the "T-Cell" infection. When it comes to the deaths aboard the ship, the only responsible party was Doctor Crusher.

    The episode The Chase says otherwise, "evolution" in the Star Trek universe, the development of intelligent lifeforms, was predetermined.

    TOS did it much better, Humans didn't "evolve" somehow in to completely different people psychologically. We were still inherently violent (but won't kill today), greedy (wealthy miners), and occasional awful (we'll kill half the population, so the other half won't starve).

    It was interestingly written, and I thought the staging was creepy in a good way.

    Miles O'Brien had a pet tarantula named Christine, Barclay interacted with it a little over a year before Genesis, this might in some way have influenced his change into a spider. Maybe it bit him at some point.

    Spider spit.

    That not completely true, evolution includes not just adaptation but also mutation and other mechanisms too. It is possible for mutation to occur within an individual, and so individuals can in fact evolve.



    [​IMG]
     
  13. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    At the risk of picking nits (I agree with most of what you have to say :) ) This last statement is half true. Individuals mutate, species evolve.
     
  14. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    That was exactly my point. Dr. Crusher, who ends the episode cracking jokes.
    You misunderstand what science fiction is and what it's not. There must be some standard for the science of the story, otherwise it's not science fiction; it's fantasy. But even fantasy must have some logic and consistency to it.

    I just happened to read this bit from Isaac Asimov in his book, "Magic," and immediately thought of the above quote in this thread. It concerns the fallout from Asimov's panning "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" for its bad science and faulty logic.
     
  15. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's interesting what things can scare us when we're kids.

    I think my first exposure to TNG was when I was 8 years old, and it was a shot from "A Measure of a Man" when Riker was snapping Data's arm off to prove he's a machine.

    I didn't understand what Data was, all I know is that as a kid, I saw a big bearded guy snap the arm off another guy, and it was robotic.

    That scared the shit outta me.