The hate at "Genesis"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by MikeS, Sep 9, 2013.

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What is wrong with "Genesis"?

  1. It's science is flawed - (d)evolution doesn't work like that

    22.6%
  2. I am a creationist - (d)evolution is a falsehood

    3.2%
  3. It is simply a rubbish episode

    21.0%
  4. I love it

    53.2%
  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This.

    Evolution goes in the direction that increases survival and reproduction odds at the time in the environment you're in. It's not some predetermined track.

    But the biggest problem that all scifi is pretty much guilty of, changing your DNA does not instantly change you into how you would look like if you were born with that DNA. You'd just start producing the wrong proteins which would probably result in death.
     
  2. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    It's an episode that ignores the impact actions have on people and the reality of the situation the Enterprise is in. It's an episode that systemic to every. Single. Problem with Voyager. It's no surprise the episode was solely written by Brannon Braga the kind of "it doesn't matter after 45 minutes episodic television."

    Consider that the Enterprise has on it over 1000 persons a number of whom are civilians and children. ALL of these people were "de-evolved." You can't have something like this happen without considering the *real* impact it'd have on people and lives.

    Beverly was sprayed with a paralytic venom that necessitates reconstructive surgery on her face.

    Worf, and presumably Riker, both KILLED PEOPLE in their altered forms.

    Riker's brain was made "much smaller" by this infection and presumably this goes for everyone else. This means parts of the brain were MISSING. Parts of the brain that contain memories, learnings and experience.

    Individuals do not evolve, species do. Over the course of EONS.

    This was all kicked off by an absent-minded hypospray shot from Beverly.

    All of this happens, people are killed, brains are destroyed, faces are destroyed and all of this happens over the course of a couple of days.

    At the end? Everyone shrugs, laughs a bit at Barclay's insecurities and life goes on as if something very damn serious hadn't just happened.

    Fuck-you Brannon Braga.
     
  3. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Now now, don't pull an Orci.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wow, if you're physically hating the producers personally over that... it's probably time to take a step back. I may be critical of a lot of their work, but beyond that I'm sure he's a great guy.
     
  5. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    I am mixed about the episode. It does come across as hokey, the science is strange but the performances everyone gave are very good and the make-up and special effects are also well done.
     
  6. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I offer the following rebuttal.

    "Genesis" is the best goddamned episode of The Next Generation that was ever broadcast!

    Up until that time my general impression of The Next Generation was, even though it was entertaining, it spent most of its time being preachy, condescending and just all around full of its own importance, like it had nothing better to do than give an ethics lecture every week.

    Then came "Genesis," and for the first time in the whole series run, it was an episode that was just fun! Blind, stinking, unadorned fun! I sat there at the end of the episode, far from thinking it was forgettable, wondering how the pompous stuffed shirts that made the rest of the series let this one slip past the enjoyment censor!

    The science is silly? People, this is the show where in one episode the ship had a baby!!! It's not like TNG was ever a hard science book brought to life on the screen!

    Hate on the episode all you like, but letting the half-ass science suck the life out of it for you is just the height of pedantry.

    "Fuck you?" No, thank you very much, Mr. Braga.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  7. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm afraid I never care whether the science is accurate or not in film and tv. That's just the way it is for me. I think this episode is a great romp. I like it. :)
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I give the episode a C+. The science is stupid but I don't give a crap about science in Star Trek. In science fiction you just accept that all diseases can be cured completely over a few hours and DNA is magic shapeshifting juice.

    I do agree though that there needed to be more reprocussions. Not from brains shrinking or things like that, but the fact that a few hundred of the crew should have been murdered and in some cases eaten by their friends. Worf should have spent the next week vomiting red fabric.

    And ignoring the science, parts of the episode were staged poorly. That guy who got a claw across his chest? Why was he sitting at his console?! Even if for some reason he didn't run for his life when a giant animal crewmember was bearing down on him, how could the animal have clawed him from behind his console? And what happened between Worf getting a venom sac and Picard showing up? Apparently everybody panicked immediately, nobody sent out any kind of distress or warning signal, nobody tries to lock the ship down or anything to protect the crew from each other. They reacted with the competency of the first ship to get killed by the weird disease before the Enterprise found them.
     
  9. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    IIRC, Riker tried to send out a distress signal but his caveman brain couldn't remember the commands/codes to give the computer to do it. Good thing those parts of his brain grew back into existence!
     
  10. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is actually the part that most bugs me. The hypospray accident is the sort of thing that happens all the time; the resulting consequence is just too much. It's controlled because they had the good fortune to be on a starship when it happened. But suppose it'd happened on a planet, say, on Earth with billions and billions of people and thousands of ships coming and going daily. The whole galaxy would get ravaged with this devolutionary virus.

    And this scale of accident happens, all the time. It suggests a universe that's teetering so close to destruction that the tiniest carelessness can't be had.

    That's tolerable, I suppose, for a Space Opera where all emotions, consequences, actions are to be huge things, but it fits badly for the Next Generation universe where stuff should be at least somewhat more fault-tolerant.

    I've got similar problems with that one where the video game ``Tubas Eating Necco Wafers'' threatens to take over the galaxy.
     
  11. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    And that's one of the focal points of why I thing this episode is so poor and endemic of the problems Trek starting having, particularly when it comes to Braga's writing. He doesn't seem to consider anything beyond an episodic nature or what he's writing SAYS things and has CONSEQUENCES.

    This episode shows that if someone is suffering from simple illness all it takes is an absent-minded shot of a hypospray to cause a virus that can "de-evolve" anyone and everyone. It created an AIRBORNE pathogen! All from ONE. Single. Hypospray shot. The episode would still have mountains of problems if what kicked this off was something vastly more complex but at least it wouldn't seem like this happening wasn't "so easy."

    Fine, I'll accept that this "could happen" that there's some aspect to genetics, DNA, RNA or whatever at some complex level beyond our current understanding that'd allow for this. Fine. That's Star Trek science by and large.

    But it's utterly stupid that it could happen so easily.
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Similar to "Create a character that is a match for Data" and - poof - an artificial, sentient, self aware intelligence is created. No fucking way. Genesis is a medical WTF, Moriarty is a computer science WTF.
     
  13. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    I love this episode, creepy and great.

    this episode is actually my very first memory of any Star Trek
     
  14. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes the science is flawed, but it's still a fun episode. A Star Trek episode with 100% correct science? HA! Doesn't exist!
     
  15. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Especially if you're de-evolving into something a human being never was in the first place. :)

    The episode is an embarrassment. Suspension of disbelief can only take one so far. The topper is Bevery cracking jokes at the end. What, I'm responsible for the violent death of Ensign Noname? Don't worry about it, we'll just push the reset button even before the episode ends.

    I guess it's a fun episode to watch the way an Ed Wood movie is fun to watch.
    The story of Genesis in the Bible is more scientifically accurate than Braga's episode of the same name.
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Sharp analysis. TNG had its moments, but the overall feeling running through it (and most of the Berman series) was like it was filtered through the viewpoint of late 80s/90s PBS, instead of a series fueled by strong writers. 20+ years after its debut, is it any wonder the often tepid, reserved TNG did not take hold in the popular culture like TOS?
     
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TNG had some flaws but its message was not among them. It's a little sick that "Mankind may not be inherently violent, greedy and awful" is considered preachy and arrogant.

    This episode, however, was badly written and badly staged.
     
  18. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    There's a difference between simply writing a story with humans who've transcended the baser aspects of our species and preaching to the audience.
     
  19. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Im in ur Tardis, violating ur canon.
    That's rather a non sequiter. One can be religious and still accept the fact of evolution. Catholicism has recognised for years that natural selection is responsible for the development of humanity.
     
  20. Chensams

    Chensams Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just rewatched with my wife and 3 kids (13, 11, 9) and my wife and 13 year old both said "what???" when Spot devolved into a lizard (my same reaction 20 years ago). Afterwards, everyone basically liked it but thought the science was really dodgy. Entertaining episode though.