The Great Romulan Evacuation

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mars, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    Spock holds a press conference after the events of the Star XI Trek Movie. Reporters ask him about the destruction of Vulcan. Spock admits it was all his fault and that he and his collegues should never have invented the red matter in the first place. When reporters ask his where he's from, he says he's from the 24th century and gives a specific date, he also describes Nero and his motivation for destroying his planet which was the destruction of the planet Romulus by a nearby supernova, Spock gives the exact date and time and mentions which star explodes. When asked if he is ever going to develop the red matter again, Spock says, Never, it was the worst mistake in his life, that he never should have developed such a lethal weapon of planetary destruction in the first place. This news gets broadcast across the Federation and beyond via subspace radio, part of that beyond is the Romulan Star Empire. What do the leaders of Romulus do?
     
  2. Shatinator

    Shatinator Commander Red Shirt

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    They would assume it was a ploy to conquer them.
     
  3. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I'm trying to figure out if Old Spock would actually divulge this information to save the Romulans or if he would keep it to himself so as not to further pollute the timeline.
     
  4. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Who says Romulus will be destroyed in this reality? It was already a bit different to begin with, and now the future has certainly been altered via Spock and Nero. Until otherwise stated or depicted on screen, AbramsTrek is a reality where the Romulan Empire reigns supreme from Romulus indefinitely...


    :rommie:
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I for one welcome our future Romulan overlords.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Only in as much as giving Trek a much needed visual upgrade. In-universe, it's the same.

    I think it's a given that with 129 years forwarning, Romulus will be saved this time.
     
  7. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    A star exploding is a pretty hard thing to stop, it occurs because the star runs out of fuel, Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding, and Spock has very good reason not to reinvent red matter after it has destroyed his homeworld. The Romulans might try to invent the stuff, but they also have about a century before that star explodes and destroys their homeworld if they don't succeed, and many Romulans won't want to take the chance of being on Romulus when it explodes. Romulans are fairly long lived being related to vulcans, many are going to try and get off their home planet, and this will result in a mass migration of Romulans into space on an unpresidented scale, not only of Romulus but of any planet within 50 light years of that star about to go supernova, this may lead to a more aggressive Romulan Star Empire as it seeks to conquer new planets to accomodate its evacuating population.
     
  8. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Chekov is older, no George Kirk Jr. that we know of, Pike is older, technology seems a little more advanced and similar to what it would be in the late 23rd century, more aliens are in Starfleet at this time - just 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that prove the NuTrek universe has some distinct differences.

    That's at least 5 differences before Spock and Nero show up, and there's no way to conclusively say there aren't any more on either a minor or major level. Fortunately, Parallels implies either is possible.

    :vulcan:
     
  9. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Events in the NuTrek universe already aren't carbon copies of the "Prime" universe, and this is before Nero and Spock RIP THROUGH space-time. Then you have countless deaths and changes in events as a result of their intrusion which would not have occurred, a planet which is obliterated, never mind 4 instances of RIPS and HOLES in the space-time continuum. You can certainly believe events from one reality may copy in another, as they have been proven to do so in many regards. But you can't conclusively claim events from the "Prime" universe will repeat in this one with any amount of certainty. See Parallels for reference - hell, see ANY alternate universe episode for reference.

    :vulcan:
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    How do we know? A tiny drop of red matter would suffice, apparently - and Nero spent several hours with the red matter before choosing to destroy Vulcan with it.

    Among the things we know he did in that time was the supposed destruction of 47 Klingon warships, indeed something better achieved with a WMD than without. But he also tells Pike "I prevented genocide!" with enough volume and saliva to make it sound fairly convincing. So, considering that his ship came out of the timehole right next to a big red star that had Klingons nearby (as per the walla aboard the Kelvin in the opening moments), and that it had entered the timehole at a location where Spock had stopped an exploding star... Might that big red star not have been the one that would eventually explode and devour Romulus? A good reason for Nero to go challenge some Klingons and play around with his newly acquired supply of red matter!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Born years after the timeline split, and easily explained anyway by saying Chekov Prime enountered a little relativitic time distortion (or any number of Trek time anomaly) that his alternate self didn't.
    In a deleted scene and irrelevent anyway, since we saw 5 minutes of his childhood. We didn't see Butler, either.
    According to Commodore Mendez in "The Minagerie", Pike is "...about [Kirk's] age." (34)
    Now, "The Cage" was 15 years earlier. And Spock served with Pike for 13 years. So Pike took command of the Enterprise somewhere between the ages of 7 and 19.
    It's a movie made in 2009 not 1966. Thats why it looks "more advanced"
    We never saw any of Starfleet during TOS. Besides - aliens only crop up when budget allows.
    By the same token, I could claim ANY continuity glitches are "proof" that episode X or movie Y exist in an alternate reality. The writers of the film say the timelines split in 2233 and novel writers back it up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  12. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    I like the way you think! :) It would be great if the next film is based on something that is a rational extension of such a significant and founding event. There is obvious potential for dramatic stories, intellectual and moral considerations and even the odd explosion or two (as befits a "two hour movie" I understand).

    In a way it would be a shame if Nero had already destroyed the offending star. But it would have been nice if the movie had actually explained what it meant by things like "I prevented genocide!" as mentioned by Timo. A natural disaster isn't genocide. If the implication is that Vulcans caused it somehow, then Nero's comment is probably referring to the destruction of Vulcan. In that case the is no longer a threat to Romulus but of course Nero is probably mistaken. Damn the writers strike!
     
  13. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't believe Nero had the red matter until he captured Spock, and he only got Spock recently before he imploded Vulcan into a black hole, if he imploded a star, that would have attracted the attention of Star Fleet and would have ruined his surprise when he attacked Vulcan. A star big enough to go supernova is a very significant star to suddenly disappear into a black hole for no reason, the type of stars that go supernova are at least 10 solar masses, they have iron cores when they stop fusing light elements, and since fusing iron into heavier elements costs energy rather than releasing it, a star such as this collapses into a neutron star as the stars outer layers rebound against it and explode into a tremendous explosion. This star would have had to have been fairly close to Romulus to destroy the planet when it exploded, for other planets further away, you have ozone destruction and possible EMP radiation frying circuits causing massive planet wide blackouts and so forth for any planet within 50 light years of the explosion.
     
  14. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    Actually Spock probably failed to save Romulus and Nero was accusing him of neglecting it intentionally, and that is what send him on his course to get revenge on Vulcan. Spock probably sees it as his doing that destroyed Vulcan with Nero as the vehicle for that destruction, but he accepts no blame for the destruction of Romulus. And if the Romulans want him to make some more red matter, he would probably refuse if he could, or he'll say since the Vulcan Science Academy no longer exists, he'll apologize and say sorry it was a team effort and since a renegade Romulan from the future destroyed his planet, there is nothing he can do.
     
  15. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    All these responses, and still the point I made about the aspect of differences in that reality remains.



    Glad we agree.


    They can say whatever they want. The fact that certain things are different prove otherwise. And getting back to my original point, until Romulus get's popped a 2nd time on screen, it's in the NuTrek universe indefinitely.

    :bolian:
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, we have the timeline of these things down pat, thanks to meticulous Starfleet bookkeeping! Kirk and Chekov give us the exact hours at which various things took place.

    Chekov's PA: "At twenty-two hundred hours, telemetry detected at an anomaly in the neutral zone. What appeared to be a lightning storm in space." (That's Spock arriving.)

    Kirk's attempt to convince Pike: "at twenty-three hundred hours last night, there was an attack. Forty-seven Klingon warbirds destroyed by a Romulan, Sir." (That's Nero having had red matter for one hour. Also note "last night", meaning Vulcan is dying some time after San Francisco dawn, just as the shuttle scenes suggested, but before the next San Francisco dawn.)

    And no, imploding stars generally do not attract the attention of Starfleet. Strangely but consistently enough, a starship has to visit a star system to see even the most massive changes in real time, as in "Doomsday Machine" or ST2. It would take some years for the lightspeed evidence of the disappearance of a star in Romulan or Klingon border regions to reach the Federation. And apparently even the faster-than-light telescopes of the UFP aren't constantly looking out for things like this with military alertness; any warning would have to diffuse down to Starfleet through cohort upon cohort of lab-coat nerds, easily giving Nero the less than full day he needed to act.

    Of course, Starfleet might have found out about the star - and immediately slapped "Top Secret" on the knowledge, like they did on the information about the loss of Klingon warships. It's quite unlikely they could see a connection between the astronomical phenomenon and an impending attack on Vulcan. An incorrect reaction would be more likely than a correct one in any case. Something did prompt them to send their warships to Laurentius...

    Indeed, the only realistic alternative here is that it was the very star Romulus orbited. Otherwise, Spock should have had enough lead time to intercept the wave of destruction as it moved between star systems. Even if it was a FTL wave, Spock was supposedly in a fast FTL ship...

    But I guess we could make do with a star exploding in the next system over. We know Klingons and Romulans constantly contest the ownership of border systems (such as Khitomer), and Romulus itself appears to lie very close to the border, judging by travel times in several episodes. A neighboring system thus could well be infested with Klingons like specified in the Kelvin walla for 2233, or in the message from 2258...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :lol:

    Seriously, though...

    Well, the entire point of bringing about an alternate timeline was to create an "everything is possible" scenario. Spock would never make a statement like the one suggested in the original post, as it would only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion in this case.
     
  18. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    You mean because that is not what the next movie will be about? Pity.
     
  19. Transwarp Drive

    Transwarp Drive Lieutenant

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    It's also got a bigger budget and a top drawer producer.
     
  20. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Star Trek: That Confusing Moment When Nobody Knows if Stuff Will Happen or Not in a Possible Future or Alternate Reality

    Sounds promising.