Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Tachyon, Feb 12, 2009.
Hehe, we're polite indeed LOL
I'm glad that you found us, PK!
^ Well, I haven't read this entire thread, but I've been impressed by what I've read. Glad to see people are remaining civilized.
It has not always been that way with regard to this topic. The VOY 'shipper wars are second only to the ENT 'shipper wars, in terms of the total disruption to this board they have caused over the years. Not sure why that is....I've been the mod of the DS9 forum for, like 7 years or something, and in all honesty, I don't recall there ever being a single nasty exchange over the DS9 'ships. People just don't spend alot of energy on them. And even when we have the discussion and people disagree, it never gets heated or anything like that. People are just not as committed to them or something. Don't know.
Not sure why VOY and later ENT went a different route, or what makes them different in this regard...but there it is. It's a mystifying phenomenon, really.
Anyway, I'm glad this thread has stayed civil. It's fun to have disagreement, because without that, the conversation would be boring. But for whatever reason, in the past, people have not been able to just keep some of these discussions at disagreement.
Hopefully those days are over.
I like to think that nobody except a crazy person would insult another person - even online - simply over the relationships of fictional characters. Call me an optimist. So the amount of animosity, I have to believe, is more related to the personalities involved than the show. Few people (except the aforementioned crazy people) would get terribly upset even if somebody disagreed with them on this subject, unless the person who disagreed did so nastily. Nastiness breeds nastiness.
I belong to a couple of grammar-related websites (there's more than one kind of geek, you know), and I've seen people lose their tempers over the subject of pronoun verb agreement. But the problem wasn't really pronouns and verbs; it was that one or more posters started implying that anybody who disagreed with them was ignorant or "hadn't really thought enough about it" or "was just parroting what they read in a book."
People hate that. I hate that. Implying that somebody's thought process is inferior to one's own is an enormous insult. Worse even than "you suck," if you ask me.
1) I'm an optimist too
2) I pull my hat for your membership on grammar boards I'm a grammar geek too, but well, in my native language of course
Isn't it great? I'm glad you dropped in.
Someone mentioned several posts back (I can't remember who and I'm too lazy to go look again) that they thought JC pretty much ended after "Year of Hell".
Ironically enough the episode that turned me into a J/Cer was "Timeless". Sure, I didn't think it a good idea at first for the first female Trek captain to have an affair with her first officer but there's something about "Timeless" that won me over. I don't know if it was the caress on the cheek or the "We waited long enough" ennuendo or what. Go figure.
You're just one of those romance-lovin' women. Admit it.
Oh, I don't deny I'm a romantic.
Strange thing is I don't read a lot of romance novels though. I guess my frequent fanfic fixes are enough.
A well-written fanfic is better than a romance novel anyway.
ETA: Oh, and that was me who found J/C dead after YOH.
Me too. I don't think I've ever read a romance novel. Fan fic on the other hand....
Interesting. Because Timeless was quite a ways into the series. I was pulled in WAY earlier than that.
I don't know what it was, actually. Maybe it was just that Kate Mulgrew and Robert Beltran simply had great on-screen chemistry in the early seasons especially. And like you guys, being a romantic myself, I always love that whole 'good girl who plays by the rules falls for bad boy who rebels against the rules' hook. That one is hard to resist, at least for me.
I truthfully can't even remember the particular episode where I decided I wanted them to end up together. But I'm very certain it was well before the end of season 1. Might even have been in one of the earliest episodes, where they were working out the issue of who would be in charge, how it would work to integrate the Maquis into the Starfleet crew, etc. I'm fairly certain that for me, it started there.
Guess I was an early adaptor. At least in this regard.
I don't read romance novels either. Can't stand 'em, in fact. Find them incredibly tedious. And actually, I don't read much fanfic either. Although I have heard that some of the J/C fanfic out there is quite good.
Maybe you guys can recommend me some?
I don't read scifi either though. I have yet to finish a SINGLE Trek novel...which is quite a feat, given that the DS9 Relaunch was getting such rave reviews a few years back and the regulars in the DS9 forum were giving me no END of grief because I'd not read a single one of those damn books.
I read spy novels and mysteries. David Morell, Daniel Silva (spy novels)....Sue Grafton, Jonathan Kellerman (mysteries).
Nothing to do with love or relationships...and nothing to do with scifi.
What I am kinda curious about is whether any of you guys are into 'ships from other shows. Or is J/C on VOY your chief interest?
As I stated above, I'm generally not into Trek 'ships as I think the Trek writers are terrible at writing them. J/C is the only one I care about.
Well, okay, I care about Kira and Bareil...but that doesn't count cus a) he wasn't a main character and b) he got killed off early in the show.
Other than that, Trek ships are not my cup of tea.
But I like a few elsewhere, on other scifi shows.
Does anyone else? Cus I'm not gonna bore you guys with my views if no one cares. I'm just curious about how the rest of you girls feel on this issue.
I haven't had much time for TV or movies the last few years because I cared for my Mom after my dad passed away until last July when she passed away. So I'm not into too many ships other than Janeway / Chakotay.
One of the reasons I like fan fiction so much is because it is romance on a starship. I grew up reading science fiction starting when I was about 10 in the late fifties. Anyway with my days spent either working or taking care of a partial invalid which didn't leave a lot of time for anything else. So I had to pick and I stuck to my long lived Trek addiction and reading (you can lay a book down and then come back to it).
So I do read romance, but I find I like the suspense romance ones and the science fiction ones the best. I don't care much for historical.
I have friends that ship various Stargate couples, Buffy of course and BSG.
Got to admit that J/C is the only couple on tv that I've felt this passionate about. I don't ship any other show and I don't think I ever will. Characters create a show for me, they are the ones that make me love it, but no I've never before or after shipped another couple or show. I'm not interested in fanfic either from other shows.
Voyager and J/C are definitely it for me.
And I'm sure some good J/C fanfic can be recommended. There's tons of it, but at the moment I'm a little too sleepy to think of any in particular. Got up in the middle of the night and found my computer still on and the lure was too strong...but I'll return now.
I can't believe this. I own all of the DS9 relaunch. It kicks ass.
There is an omnibus of several of the early novels out now I think. You should pick it up.
As for the topic. 'Ships = Bleh.
I'll bow out now and let you guys have fun.
What about J/K???
She was always trying to comfort Harry Kim. Who knows? Maybe we've had it wrong all this time and she really had it in for Harry.. Though, lest we forget she did have Lizard children with Tom Paris. Chakotay barely got a peck on the cheeck for all his time and attention.
Actually, I sometimes enjoy 'ships (aside from captain-first officer blah blah blah), but I don't want them to dominate the series. Not in scifi, anyway. That's not what I read or watch scifi for. I want stuff that's thought-provoking, not "oh, that's so romantic"-provoking, if you know what I mean. It also should have some alien-oriented action. If I want deep character studies, I'll read Jane Austin (whom I adore, by the way).
I actually read very few Trek novels either, PK. I wouldn't want to say this in the lit forum because some of the writers sometimes go there and I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but...but most of the Trek books (and a lot of non-Trek books too, for that matter) are very badly written, so badly written that I just can't enjoy them. (I believe I've mentioned that I'm a grammar geek, right?) I tried one or two, turned away in grammar-geekian disgust, waited a few years, tried one or two more, turned away afresh in grammar-geekian disgust, and so on.
The problem isn't that I want great literature - I read plenty of lightweight froth. The problem is that it has to be punctuated correctly, it can't use, say, "sight" when the correct word is "site," it can't use too many cliches and so on.
I really don't think the problem is so much the writers - it's the editors. Lots of books go out with only minimal editing these days. ::gets off soap box::
In the past five years, I've found a couple of Trek writers who can meet my fairly modest requirements. Greg Cox is one of these, and I just found out (in the lit forum) that he's writted a Voyager novel, so I'll definitely give that one a try.
Oops, sorry - I'm OT, aren't I? Anyway, for me, any 'ships have to take a back seat to the thought-provoking stuff and the alien-action stuff.
You know, it's been a long time since I've read any Austin...
Yay! Nice to see ya. *huggles*
And welcome to the dark side...
*Does not compute* *Blue screen* *Blue screen*
J/C is definitely my chief ship. No question about that. It was also nice to see Tom and B'Elanna as a couple, even though I am not a shipper for them in a true sense of the word.
When DS9 began, I was looking forward somoe Jadzia/Julian action, but it died pretty fast. I think Odo's feelings towards Kira were lovely and I enjoyed following that relationship. But once they got together and the tension was gone, I didn't really know what to make from it. But the episode 'Children of Time' was very good Kira/Odo episode and I absolutely loved when Kira found out about Odo's feelings and the tension that emerged from that situation between them.
But I also like BonC from TNG (see picture below). I wished Jean-Luc and Bev could have seen these two getting together on series or movies.
Hi T *hugs*
(still adore that fiddle!)
Like Tachyon, I also ship Crusher/Picard (and will venture into Paris/Torres space on occasion).
Outside of Trek I ship Mulder/Scully and Grissom/Willows.
You like Grissom/Willows, too!
(I have always preferred that one over the Grissom/Sara.)
And Mulder/Scully was my first ship ever, before I even knew there was a concept of "relationshipper" out there. J/C was my second.
Thanks dear! But you have made the best BonC fiddle I have ever seen! And you know exactly the pic I am talking about!
Separate names with a comma.