The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Guy Gardener, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Gods = Generation 1 Cylons.

    Man = Generation 2 Cylons.

    Cylons = Generation 3 Cylons.

    It's not me imagining shit right, but I figured this out half way through season one when they explained Kobol, but it was never really confirmed as a fact thereafter.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Where do the head messengers of Baltar and Six fit in on your scale? Generation 1.5?

    And does that make modern Mankind on Earth generation 4 on your scale?
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Zoey Greystone was the god the head messengers worked for.

    Zoey was the first generation 3. The worker drones through to the liberated Centurians insisting on equal rights, and onward to as many stages of their evolution, which were the bulk of generation 3, and then the skin jobs were generation 4.

    There must have been a cision between Zoey and the Centurians over how to establish their freedom from human oppression before or after the Final five arrived from Kobol at siblight speed with a way out.

    So the messengers are the immediate creations of Zoey which makes them precursors or distinctly parallel to the Centurian expansion and rebellion.

    3.0a

    But this is all just logical deduction you already know in your heart to be true.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  4. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kinda hard to apply logic to deus ex machina narrative devices. Especially as the series ends with a confirmation of monotheism, with Head Baltar (*sigh*) referring to the one true God as "He".
     
  5. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    ^ There was no confirmation of monotheism. It was simply implied that there was something else out there at work. And didn't Head Baltar say "It doesn't like to be called that."?
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Google says "It" but I was sure it was a "she" as of 12 seconds ago, which is why I assumed for the last couple years that Zoe was God.
     
  7. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, I was still right in that "It" insinuates a single God. I don't like to think about that finale too much. I get Vietnam style flashbacks.
     
  8. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whenever I think about the finale I have flashbacks to drunken debauchery at a strip club and trying to swat a trapped pigeon with a broom. But my therapist says I shouldn't worry about it.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do you know what mummery is?

    Behind God's curtain there's one frack who is a singular intelligence who master-minded (master-mound?) everything we saw from the Opera House to All Along the Watch Tower and on.

    The singular God who engineered the exodus is "someone" from the cast of Caprica who ascended to silicone heaven and was the prime mover of the Generation 3 Cylons moving the humans and droids alike like chess pieces subtly.

    I assumed it was Zoe because she was first and most powerful, but that doesn't mean that she survived to these latter days. Especially when it was Clarice or Lacy who really got balls deep into religion and montheism.

    The Gods of Kobol, died on Kobol and have nothing to do with nothing about the story we saw or the scheming that had the head messengers farting around plotting a better definition of humanity.

    Dude!

    It's not a victory to recognize that what was said overtly in the script plain as day many, many, many times is the unobscuring of some sort of National Treasure level hidden widget talisman key to the secret of the universe.
     
  10. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    The Final Five all got prophetic visions on Earth, though, which certainly predated Zoe.
     
  11. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    It was my impression humans created A.I. on Kobol, and those Cylons also rebelled and caused the twelve tribes of humans to migrate to The Colonies and the Cylons to earth.
     
  12. The Evil Dead

    The Evil Dead Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In my head God in the world of Battlestar Galactica was a Cylon created by a civilization predating even Kobol who had evolved beyond corporeal form.

    Cavil says "I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to — I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more, I could experience so much more, but I’m trapped in this absurd body."

    God was a Cylon that achieved Cavil's dream.

    This Cylon (God) seeks to end the cycle it has seen occur over and over again and takes steps throughout the series to make sure this is the end.
     
  13. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, the big problem with the theory is that BSG was, at best, the second go-round of the phenomenon, and heavily implied that it's been going on and on for some time. That would mean the humans of BSG and Caprica were, again at best, ''4th generation cylons'' going by your logic. And that completely negates Zoey as God. Unless you assume Caprica was a really, really early prequel measured in thousands of years, and all the familiar names and places were just a massive coincidence.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The final 5 are Generation One Cylons from Earth, which means that they were also "related" to the Cylons from Kobol who created man. Their hardware seriously predates Zoe but perhaps not their software. The final 5 arrived in 12 colonies space, ended the War by handing over skin job technology, and the Generation threes wandered off, building generation 4s who then mentally castrated all the generation 3s to guarantee their dominance.

    The problem is that the Final 5 didn't want to go with the generation 3s who tried to kill mankind, or the Generation 4s who enslaved the generation 3s, off into deep space... And the final 5 were all very sad. The final 5 were so damn sad because they were not the final 5 of the 12 cylon models, they were the final 5 of a species of billion of Generation ones from Earth. So sad that they lobotomised themselves rather than revel in their survivors guilt misery, digging into their minds and ripped out their storied identities as machines until they could live happily ever after as stoopid human beings with the stoopid humans(which might have been their price? Skin job technology in exchange for a home with the humans which is the only reason the generation 3s didn't finish off the generation 2s?) But just because the final five wanted to be happy, it doesn't mean that they were stupid enough to leave themselves defenceless if happiness began to elude them.

    What you call "prophecy" I say was either a defence mechanism trigger the final 5 themselves put in place to wake up if everything went to shit, unless the programming was from "God" who might have been Zoe, strung into their new identities 40 years earlier when they built these new bodies and abbreviated personalties for the final 5 as part of whatever brief alliance they had been apart of before they all split up and headed off in different directions.

    The Gods of Kobol invented Man. We take this to be true. The Gods of Kobol happened to be Cylons. We know this to be true. Surely that means that the Cylons came first and man is just a different kind of Cylon, who is too arrogant to accept that they are AI too?
     
  15. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The ending would have fit a little more nicely if Adama ordered all tech destroyed and they arrived on earth just a few thousand years ago. This would have played into the "it all happens" again theme.

    Basically, a sentient life form gains enough knowledge to create AI and eventually wipes itself out only to have the same thing happen to the next generation of sentient life forms. Is this what you mean by Gen 1, Gen 2, etc?
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The gods (generation one) made man (generation 2) who then made the cylons (generation 3) who then made the skin jobs (generation 4) who then interbred with generation 2 to make the Hera, Nicki and the Teranians (generation 5) who 2 hundred and 50 thousand years later are on the verge of creating NeoCylons (generation 6.).

    The primates running about on Earth quarter of a million years ago might have raped their way through the Galacticans once their technology started failing, but I doubt the galacticans would have chosen to interbreed with monkeys... So it's a loaded question to ask about the missing link if the true men native of Earth died out and were replaced by aliens, or only MOSTLY replaced by aliens if there were a small number of sexual cross overs resulting in child birth and some of their monkey dna got through to modern times.

    Of course just because the Galacticans wouldn't boff the monkeys it doesn't mean that the Cylons wouldn't. More so that the Cylons owed the refugees of the twelve colonies a new home world on which they could frakk, and quite frankly a hundred years later withe the grandchildren or great grandchildren of sdo many Cylon/monkey orgies continuously filtering and upgrading Monkey DNA through the reproductive facilities of the cylons, these grandshildren might actually be frakkable to the Galactican's lilly sentiments, so that after all that waiting for a good lay, it might actually be possible to have enough genetic diversity to maintain a growing culture without massive mutation and deformity from inbreeding. It's then that you have to ask yourself isn't it amazing how the Cylons can breed so eaily with the Terran monkeys but fail continuously to make babies with Galacticans, and themselves each other, as if it has always been monkeys they were supposed to frakk and never humans becuase this has always been Gods plan for them?

    It's really a question of if the gods of kobol evolved on Kobol, or if they were a machine intellect created by another species that had run through it's life expectancy earlier. I see that the three prime reasons to invent skin job technology are... Immortality (any damage/disease to the body is covered by immortality), vanity and/or interplanetary travel. If it's 3 hundred years between stars, no form of stasis or cold storage is going to keep "people" fresh for revivification... Which means certainly that if the Gods of Kobol did not evolve on Kobol, if Kobol is not their home planet, and they did not have FTL technology then the first Gods on Kobol had to have been Cylons riving from extended boxing/storage from after a vast interstellar flight.

    There's a Generation Zero that we know nothing about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  17. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Gods of Kobol I think were just intended to be a previous generation of sentient beings who probably had their own previous gods. The story just keeps repeating itself, as it has been repeating before. As for the group on earth, I just kind of figured that they existed side by side with homo-whatever for generations until the two groups just intermingled. But I think you have put way more thought into this than the writers ever did.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm amazed that half a second of revelation turned into about two typed pages (double space, single sheet.) of writing to articulate.

    CAVIL WAS RIGHT!! :)

    One thing I noticed last night, the Final Five used relativistic flight to get to the colonies, so they could have been awake for the whole trip to Colony Space, or been in stasis for a for just a couple years depending on how close to light speed they could achieve and sustain, or how long it takes them to accelerate to (almost) light speed... Which kinda makes my thoughts on resurrection as stasis a little less certain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  19. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Surely a cylon doesn't need stasis?
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Centurians no.

    Skinjobs yes.

    (Paraphrasing)

    Adama "Cylons don't age! I knew you when you had hair!"

    Salty "Well I'm a different kind of Cylon, one that we've never seen before."

    That accounts for the final 5.

    Meanwhile we saw considerably younger versions of some of the first 7 in the Razor Flashbacks.

    Of course if they could accelerate to actual light speed immediately, and not a decent fraction of light speed slowly... The trip from Earth to Colony space would "seem" to take seconds, but that's not taking into account kinetic strikes on the ship, from hitting two thousand years worth of space dust and space pebbles all at once during those couple seconds, that it would be sane if they would stop now and then to make sure that they're not going to plough into anything like a planet or nebula either... Or alternatively plot a super weird course that takes them off the galactic plane mostly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013