The Genesis planet...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by los2188, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    But we do see a star rising. http://youtu.be/vtQUePN5y40

    Yes.
     
  2. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    Nope
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...It shows a planet of fixed size already being complete, just with some swirling clouds around it. "Pulling together to create a planet" is overstating the case by a wide margin.

    Really, the simulation we saw already featured something very similar: a grey, dead moon or planetoid briefly glows orange as the Genesis wave races along its surface, and then coalesces into lakes, forests and whatnot. So for all we know, Genesis did almost exactly what the Marcuses wanted it to do, with the modification that the wave was initiated at a distance rather than at the surface of the target world.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    For all you know. :devil:

    That's not how the script described it. The new planet is drawn together from nebula gases and the USS Reliant debris. The whole point of this explosion is that it is less controlled, and much bigger, than either the simulation tape (transforming a planetoid named Keti Bandar by the FX guys) and the Genesis Cave.

    If you're trying to tell us that it's Regula being terraformed by the wave, what happened to the orbiting Regula One space station? If the explosion is doing what it's supposed to do, why the urgency for Enterprise to escape? Because the device's detonation had not been aimed at a target. Wouldn't the wave dissipate before it found the planet?
     
  5. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    Firstly, Regula is brown, not grey (at least before the bluray) :)

    Second, what we see of the Genesis planet being born looks nothing like the Carol Marcus' demo reel.

    I believe the intent of the filmmakers is that the Mutara Nebula becomes Genesis. We don't know the fate of Regula, or Regula One space station.
     
  6. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    It's a demo reel, showing a greatly accelerated, not to mention, projected computer simulation. They've never deployed the Genesis effect upon a planetary scale, so of course, the demo reel is going to look nothing like the actual effect.

    Yet, they then showed the Genesis planet in orbit of a star, since when did nebulae orbit stars?

    We then come to the classic argument about how much mass is needed for the creation of the Genesis planet, and whether gaseous mass can be used in place of solid mass.

    Like I said earlier, it makes more sense for the Genesis wave to have travelled to the nearest planet or planetoid, which could have been Regulus, enveloped that planet or planetoid as it was designed to do, and then terraformed that planet or planetoid into Genesis.

    Hell, even if Regulus did become Genesis, Regula One might have even survived the Genesis wave, depending on it's orbital location at that time.

    Not on-screen, no. However, in many of the novels set during this time, it's mentioned that Carol and/or David, returned to Regula One, in order to pack up their research and sort out the personal effects of their deceased colleagues (the bodies of those colleagues were presumably picked up by Enterprise).

    This could all be solved quite simply, if someone were to ask Harve Bennett or Nicholas Meyer, what their intentions were.
     
  7. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    That explosion scattered the nebula all over the place; explosions expand outwards not inwards.

    Destroyed by the explosion's shockwave?
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Or by the Genesis effect. After all, it was supposed to transform targets into life-bearing worlds. If it encountered something as tiny as a space station or a starship, it would turn those into absurdly small miniature Earths, structures without any hope of remaining stable; quite possibly, the orange smear we see around the Genesis planet is what remains of the Federation space station, and what would have remained of the Enterprise had not Spock decided to play circuit breaker for the warp engine.

    If so, Kirk would never have been at risk. Why would he need warp drive to escape a wave that dissipates at a distance shorter than the one he just crossed at impulse?

    (Okay, it has to be argued that Kirk didn't even have impulse available when fleeing the detonation - that sorry limp we witness must be thrusters or somesuch at work!)

    Of course, if the wave was of a quickly dissipating sort, it could never englobe the nebula and turn it into a planet. The ability to reach as far as Regula is there no matter how one looks at it, thus allowing for Regula as the preferable conversion target and leaving Mutara the less likely option.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    It's in the script!

    Later:

    Then:

    The scene takes place "EXT. MUTARA NEBULA". "... a gigantic, cosmic scale." No mention of it involving Regula nor its space station.

    The novelization makes it even more explicit.

    The script says this about the Genesis Cave and its light source:
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    It seems the script wasn't followed in making the film, then, as we fail to see either the formation of the Genesis planet out of nothingness, or the orb in the "sky" of the Genesis cave...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.
     
  12. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    If that's how you want to go about Star Trek, that's your prerogative.

    It's really up to the individual fan, to decide what they consider part of their personal canon or continuity.
     
  13. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    We really shouldn't be talking about this. Genesis is planet forbidden!
    [​IMG]
     
  14. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Thanks, how magnanimous of you.

    Yeah, whatever. Personally, I'm more interested in the "official" canon. And that leaves the Regula/Genesis-thing pretty vague.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I was answering Admiral M's suggestion that we needed to ask Bennett or Meyer for an explanation, when their intentions are already known. In the script.

    I guess Uhura was never born. We never saw her birth either. It never happened.
     
  16. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    The filmmaker's intentions are completely meaningless if they don't translate onto the film.
    If you have to read up on the intention or meaning of a film-scene then the film-makers have failed.

    What the movie shows us about the creation of Genesis (that's redundant, isn't it ;)) isn't quite clear; it could have been formed from the matter in the Mutara nebula (unlikely since it was scattered by the explosion) or it could be the transformed Regula.

    Your comment about Uhura doesn't make any sense, btw.
     
  17. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    In that case, why does anyone ask any of these questions if, by your strict definition of the rules, they cannot be answered.

    Did we witness her birth on screen, or did dialogue reference it? How do we know it happened?
     
  18. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    The script makes it quite clear that it is a new world, not a pre-existing one.
     
  19. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's clear that the intent was that the planet formed where the Reliant exploded. If it was meant to have been Regula, they'd have shown it.
     
  20. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    Quite true, but I think there's a reasonable probability, if the Romulans had their hands on such technology, that they would find the perfect planetoid, in the perfect location, and refine the Genesis device to their specifications, and create a new, as near perfect as you can get Romulus to rule the Empire from. That's totally within their personality as a species, IMO.