The fate of Jonathan Archer

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by King Daniel Beyond, Sep 16, 2010.

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Pick a destiny for Jonathan Archer

  1. President of the Federation

    31 vote(s)
    57.4%
  2. Admiral, academy instructor

    20 vote(s)
    37.0%
  3. I don't like either

    3 vote(s)
    5.6%
  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    In a barely glimpsed on-screen graphic in the episode "In a Mirror, Darkly", Archer's service record is displayed. It says he ends up Ambassador to Andoria and eventually Federation President.

    In Star Trek XI, an Admiral Archer is referred to as Scotty's academy instructor, whose "prize beagle" is lost in a transwarp beaming experiment leading to the engineer's exile on Delta Vega. If this is the same guy from Enterprise (the writers of the movie have stated that it was their intent) he would be about 140 at the time, assuming he got "then" without help.

    STXI takes place in an alternate timeline to TOS and the rest, but since the timelines diverge in 2233, Enterprise should be part of their shared past. Since ex-presidents are referred to by the title "President", and the IaMD graphic says Archer became president before the split, the two destinies are incompatible. Which does everyone prefer?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Oh yeah, almost forgot:

    I dislike the "President Archer" idea. It sounds like a John Sheridan Babylon 5 rip off, plus the graphic's pretty much invisible unless you have HD, pause and zoom in. IMO it was meant to be an neat easter egg for die-hard fans, but not to be taken any more seriously than all the other little in-jokes on background computer screens over the years.
    Also: I wouldn't vote for him.

    I find the idea of him becoming an instructor at the academy far more believable. A pioneer of space exploration, he'd have much to teach the next generation(s) of Starfleet.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It doesn't have to be the same Archer. I don't care what the intent was. It was probably Jonathan's son or grandson.

    And even if not, it was only Scotty who called him Admiral. Maybe Scotty just got it wrong? Meaning, he didn't know the proper form of address?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  4. Count Zero

    Count Zero Watching Moderator

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    I don't see why he couldn't be both (not at the same time, of course). Just because US Presidents are referred to in a certain way doesn't mean it has to be true for the Federation President, too. And there were probably exceptions to the rule in American history, anyway.
    I always liked the idea of him going into politics and I think we saw the beginnings of that in Demons/Terra Prime and even before that, in United. A sort of 'If you want something done you have to do it yourself' approach. Also, blackmailing Earth's Prime Minister is a promising start to a political career. ;)

    I also like the idea of him being a (rather undiplomatic) diplomat. Andoria is a good choice because he seems to get their culture. Personally, I take some pleasure in imagining him as ambassador to Vulcan. It would make sense, too, because after finding the Kir'Shara and carrying Surak's katra around he should hava an unique perspective and also the (grudging) respect of the Vulcans. Besides, it would be much more entertaining.

    I actually like the idea of him staying in Starfleet until old age the least. In TrekLit this has become something of a cliché. Then again, we have no idea what happened to Archer in between and it's fun to imagine all sorts of scenarios how and why's he's still around in Kirk's time. Did he get frozen for a while? Did he discover a fountain of youth?
     
  5. FlapJoy

    FlapJoy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Why is it hard to believe that Jonathon Archer could live to be 140 or older? 22nd century medical science and a healthy physique alone could preserve a Trek character beyond our current era standards. Need I mention McCoy on the Enterprise D?

    And it's Star Trek, they got a hypo-spray that cures every disease in one shot, medical knowledge from long lived alien races, not to mention the Nexus (Kirk), alien entity fuck buddies (Cochrane), and pattern buffer storage (Scotty) that can keep a man alive for centuries... and time travel, perhaps Archer skipped a few years ahead on some mission with Daniels?

    I would imagine that Archer lived a long, and amazing life zipping around Starfleet's formative years... bring on the Captain Professor President Ambassador Archer Chronicles!!
     
  6. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm fine with the idea of our Jonathan Archer being the president of the Federation. His standing following the Babel One arc and the Demons/Terra Prime arc, would make him a logical choice to be a representative to the early Coalition and then the Federation.
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's not the problem.

    The issue is whether Scotty's reference to him as "Admiral Archer" is compatible with Archer being a former Federation President (since IRL, former presidents are always called President - even if they are veterans).

    I think it likely that either Scotty didn't realize this, and called Archer an Admiral even though he was a former President, or OTOH the custom could simply have changed.
     
  8. elaithin

    elaithin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or it could simply be that, of the two titles, he preferred Admiral to President.
     
  9. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    This is the way I see it. As someone who was an Admiral and a President, either form of address would be applicable. Take for example George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, or Dwight Eisenhower. They were all generals and U.S. Presidents - and throughout their lives, even in their post-presidencies, they were often referred to as "General."

    Personally, I like the idea that Archer went on to be the UFP President. Throughout the fourth season, we saw him beginning to become a political figure. And, he was instrumental in bringing the four founding member species together.

    I also don't think it was much of a Babylon 5 rip-off. Sheridan went right into the presidency from his military career and was the very first president of the Alliance. Archer didn't do that. Even though he was one of the "Founding Fathers" of the Federation, he had a political career in between his time in Starfleet and his presidency - his career as Ambassador to Andoria. I like the fact that they didn't make him the first UFP President.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    For me, it's real simple.

    Prime Universe: Archer becomes Federation President and lives just long enough to see the launch of Enterprise NCC-1701.

    Alternate Universe: Archer stays in Starfleet (ala McCoy in TNG)

    Personal preference: Archer eventually goes on to become the Earth Ambassador within the Federation, but dies circa 2220.
     
  11. Middleman

    Middleman Captain Captain

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    I'm sticking with President of the Federation and I will assume that Scotty called him Admiral as a title of respect and out of tradition. Although it did seem to me that none of the crew of the Enterprise in Star Trek XI showed any military respect or tradition.
     
  12. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Isn't it entirely possible that Admiral Archer is President Archer's son?
     
  13. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Err, is it necessary to mention that Archer was supposedly the Federation President, not the US President? I know you guys love to think it's the same thing, but it's not. ;)

    Custom didn't need to change, since it's not the same custom to begin with.
     
  14. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ No since we are in an alternate timeline. I don't see why we're even debating about this...it was clearly a shout out to "Enterprise" and Jonathon Archer, right down to the reference of Porthos. McCoy was shown on the pilot episode of "TNG" walking with Data as being 140+ and it would only be logical to assume that medical technology of the future has advance along with improved living conditions to ensure that extended life spans for humans are possible.

    The Archer mentioned by Scotty obviously remained in Starfleet and was a Senior Admiral of note again obviously meant to be a shout out to "Enterprise". Remember all the rumors and discussion we had about the rumored stature of Archer that was supposed to be outside Starfleet Academy which was proven to be untrue.

    As for the bio...it has been posted on the board before as soon as a couple of days after "In A Mirror Darkly" aired. Pretty sure I also saw it in Mirror Archer's article on Memory Alpha.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I did say "IRL", you know.
     
  16. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    "IRL" doesn't mean "in the US".

    What about the rest of my comment? You failed to address the fact that different organizations have different customs, and as such it's not required that the Federation would follow US customs.
     
  17. wissaboo

    wissaboo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It all depends on when Archer became president. If it was after the Narad emerged or before. If it was after it's entirely possible that Archer never became president.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I don't recall the exact date, but Archer supposedly became president decades before the Narada arrived in 2233.

    The thing that bugs me slightly is that the screen really wasn't visible in the episode. There have been loads of computer screens in Star Treks full of nonsense and in-jokes and whatnot, and they're not treated with the reverence that the IaMD graphic is. Also of note, the graphic states that Archer was captain of the Enterprise until 2160 - and a few episodes later, we see him in command in 2161.

    Of course this whole thing's inconsequential. I'm not doing the whiny fanboy thing, I just want to know which destiny is the most popular among Enterprise fans.

    I personally would get a huge kick out of seeing Scott Bakula have a little cameo as Admiral Archer in STXII, not aged a day, dressed in the black gear Pike and Spock wore, with Daniels by his side. I think it'd be a cool nod to fans, and give the impression that just because the TV show's ended, the adventures go on.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That can be assumed to be true, yes.

    ...but that can't. TATV was only a holodeck creation, you know. Who's to say it's authentic? ;)
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He's retired from the Presidency - long ago - and been head of the Academy since. He prefers "Admiral."