Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by ainmneacha_Nollag, Nov 23, 2013.
I'm sure it will grow on me. Right now it has a few moments
I feel like an idiot! When we first hear the Curator, I thought Smith would turn to see Capaldi. How I didn't recognize the voice of "my first" and favorite Doctor, well, it embarrassed me. But that moment quickly faded as Tom with that old twinkle in his eye dazzled and confused both Smith's Doctor (and us) with tantalizing words of whimsy.
There were a few minor things that prevented me from giving it the highest rating, so I voted "Very Good"; still, it was AWESOME.
I loved how it opened with the original theme and visuals. The first scene even started with a policeman walking past the I.M. Foreman junkyard! And of course Coal Hill.
The Tennant-era music when it first cut to Elizabeth I's time.
"I like the round things" "What are the round things, anyway?" "Not a clue."
Speaking of the round things, nice to see the interior of Hurt's TARDIS.
All of the visual cameos in The Black Vault. They even had a photo of Kamelion!
I was completely and pleasantly surprised when all of the Doctor's incarnations started popping up. It was a bit surreal to hear the First Doctor actually say "Gallifrey", though it was awesome that they actually gave him original dialogue (a very convincing impersonator, BTW).
And of course, "All 12 of them." "No, all 13! then CAPALDI!
Nice to see Hurt's regeneration. I was wondering how much they would show, considering Eccleston wasn't involved. If you looked closely, though, you can just make out some of Eccleston's features before it cuts away.
The final shot screamed Photoshop, but otherwise it was an excellent way to end the episode.
Peter Capaldi and TOM BAKER
Briliant on just about every level. While I wish Eccleston had made an appearance, anything more than a cameo would have squeezed out the great banter between 10 and 11. But seeing 4 again was icing on the cake!
Other things I've liked that have not been mentioned yet:
- The beginning on Totter's Lane.
- Clara had a surprisingly big role.
anyone catch that the principal of Coal Hill School was 'I Chesteron'?
This was awesome. It was mostly continuity porn, but that's kind of what you want from an anniversary special, and it tied so many threads together so well. It picked up threads from the Davies era, fleshed them out more fully, and brought them to a very satisfying climax.
And there were so many wonderful moments, including a lot of the interactions among Doctors. Hurt got some great zingers. "What are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?" "I hope the ears are less prominent this time." And I loved the bit where he wondered why his future selves were so afraid of acting like grownups, and they looked at him.
And some very clever timey-wimey stuff. ("Honestly, I don't know where he gets these things from," Ten says defensively.) I loved the idea of starting a program in one sonic screwdriver and getting its results in a later incarnation (and it's kind of a nice bit of symbolism that the screwdrivers are "regenerations" of the same screwdriver). I was a bit frustrated when Clara got them out and we were deprived of the payoff, but that turned out to be because the whole thing was setup for a much greater payoff at the climax. I love that kind of deft seeding of things that you have no idea are meant as setup for something later until the payoff comes and you go "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!" The bit with the stone dust and the draped statues was another one. I caught onto that just seconds before Dr. Osgood did.
Although I predicted a setup/reveal that didn't happen -- I kept expecting that the painting would turn out to be the pocket universe where Gallifrey was hidden. But I guess Moffat wants to set up a "The Search for Gallifrey" story arc instead.
And so many Easter eggs. Clara teaching at Coal Hill School, and the sign saying I. Chesterton was the headmaster or something. The blackboard in the Black Archive with all the photos of past companions and associates (did I see a photo of Brigadier Bambera?). The round things (which were properly called roundels) -- I wonder if they borrowed some set pieces from An Adventure in Space and Time for that scene. Moffat even picked up on the hints from the RTD era about Tennant and Elizabeth I having a thing and fleshed them out. And one of my favorites was when Bad Wolf described the TARDIS sound as "that peculiar wheezing, groaning sound" -- which was how Terrance Dicks habitually described it in so many of the novelizations he wrote!
We even got an explanation -- well, a passing handwave -- for why the Doctor doesn't remember the details of his meetings with himself. It's because "the timelines are out of sync" and the extratemporal memories aren't retained. I should've known Moffat would address that (although he's created a continuity problem within his own body of work, since Ten did remember the events of "Time Crash" from Five's POV).
No surprise, also, that he filled in another gap by showing the beginning of the regeneration from Hurt into Eccleston. Up until that shot cut away, I was hoping we'd get a surprise cameo by Eccleston, but I wasn't surprised when we didn't.
But man, the surprise cameo that came right after that more than made up for it. "Revisit some old favorites" indeed.
It was also very handy that the anniversary/crossover came at a time just before Smith leaves, so that the next Doctor could make a cameo. So I guess now it's official -- Smith is actually the Doctor's twelfth life and Capaldi his thirteenth. Which means, given Moffat's demonstrated devotion to continuity, that the upcoming Christmas special may well explain the origins of the Valeyard.
Now, the question is: Did the Doctor actually change his own past, or is this the way it happened all along and he just didn't remember? I think it was the latter. After all, the Moment was the source of the temporal crossover, and the Moment was there in the "original" history, so there's no reason why it would've unfolded differently than what we saw. So it hasn't actually changed the Doctor's past, just revealed something he hadn't known about it before. But that revelation is likely to change him, to lift a weight from his conscience. Maybe he won't be so afraid to act like a grownup anymore, and maybe that's why his next incarnation is older.
(I wonder how many other comments have been added since I started this post...) (EDIT: Wow -- 41!)
Or Madame Tussauds had a part in another multi-doctor story.
I almost forgot, it seems that Clara is teaching in a school where Ian is her boss.
Bloody brilliant, loved it. Only minor gripes were its pacing at times and the amount of recycled music cues.
We only know that the Valeyard is between the Thirteenth and final incarnation - but we have no idea how many exist between 13 and the last (The Curator appears to be quite a while down the line but how far - who can say)?
It was great fun. The Doctors' solution to the Time War was great, the Dalek's own hate destroys themselves. And the show can get past the perpetual guilt trip of being the Last Timelord. It's been a long trip for the Doctor under Moffat's guidance, and this was a great beginning to ending that arc. Trenzalore awaits, I guess that might be where Capaldi comes in. And Tom Baker, thatnk you Moffat for that scene. Fantastic.
So, now that The Doctor has legitimized his (actual) Ninth Incarnation (John Hurt, The War Doctor), does that mean we can OFFICIALLY renumber Eccleston through Smith and refer to Capaldi as the Thirteenth Doctor?
The Valeyard was from between the twelfth & final incarnations (at a time they were still thinking 13 would be the limit).
But your question still holds, how many more will there be?
Well if the timelords are going to reward anybody with more regenerations now then it's going to be the Doctor for saving them......again.
The BBC3 aftershow party is a shambles but nice that Jackie Lane made a video appearance give she usually refuses to have anything to do with the show.
And another question: will we get split Doctors for Christmas? One of them who will call himself the Valeyard and who will become the series' main villain for a while?
Oh yes! Good catch.
The Valyard will show up when the Batman finally cleans up Gotham city once and for all.
Anyone else notice that that's the exact same gambit used to defeat the Weeping Angels in "Blink," just on a much vaster scale? The Doctor said he's had centuries to think about what he could've done instead; maybe that's where he got the idea.
Yes. And it was the Master who delivered that information; he most likely knew that the Valeyard split off between the Doctor's 12th and 13th lives, and just assumed "13th" meant "final" because that was the natural order of things for all Time Lords -- except himself, but he cheated.
Surely the Doctor will find some way around the limit, but it won't be a given. I suspect Capaldi's Doctor's personality will be shaped by his awareness that he's the last, that the next time he dies, he's done for. I doubt he'll be given a way out of that until his final story, because it's more dramatic to make it a looming threat and wait until the last moment to resolve it -- kind of like the way the destruction of Gallifrey was treated here and in the stuff that led to here.
And I suppose it's a good question -- should we call Capaldi the Twelfth Doctor or the Thirteenth? And what do we call Hurt now? Or, for that matter, Eccleston, Tennant, and Smith? We could go in real-world order of casting, but then that would make Hurt the 12th. This is so confusing.
But anyway, thanks to what's come out in the past two weeks, we've now at least partially witnessed every one of the Doctor's regenerations except, arguably, his second.
Yeah, same time as we see the actual regeneration into the Curator - btw surprised nobody picked up on the “wearing a bit thin” line?
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