The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Dimesdan, Nov 23, 2013.

?

So what did you think?

Poll closed Dec 21, 2013.
  1. Brilliant: Geronimo.

    188 vote(s)
    77.7%
  2. Very Good: Bow Ties are Cool!

    38 vote(s)
    15.7%
  3. Ok: Come along Ponds.

    10 vote(s)
    4.1%
  4. Passable: Fish Fingers and Custard.

    5 vote(s)
    2.1%
  5. Terrible: Who da man?

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  1. Mitty

    Mitty Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just got back from seeing it at the cinema, and now watching it again on TV. It has its problems, but all in all I'm just thrilled with it. Clara... Clara I just love. Rose, and not Rose... awesome. John Hurt is incredible, they were SO lucky he wanted to do it. Even if Ecclestone HAD agreed to take part, I'm not sure it would have been as good. Tom Baker... he could have turned up and read out a soup recipe and he would have been awesome, but his scene was just sublime.

    And Capaldi... FRAK YEAH. I can not WAIT for him now. Not that I want Matt to leave, but I just KNOW he's going to be incredible. Those eyes... wow.

    This boy, who has known Doctor Who his entire 42 years, could not be happier today.
     
  2. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

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    WOW

    Over 10 million and these are just overnights, which tend to be well under the actual numbers. Probably looking at around a final audience of 12 million+ ;) which might put it as the highest rated show of the entire week in the UK.
     
  3. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And not that it counts or anything, but I'm in Switzerland and I watched it live on French television. The worldwide numbers would be even more impressive I guess.
     
  4. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, that was fantastic. This is what I've been waiting for (and hoping for) since the first season of the modern show. I thought Eccleston was going to appear for a minute there, but the Curator more than made up for that. And all the Doctors did appear. :)
     
  5. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You are taking that point out of context and misunderstanding it - my point was in response to the idea that we would see the regeneration into the Curator at the same time as Batman finally clears up Gotham City = never.
     
  6. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's nothing to forgive - Moffat's reign has been a noteable improvement on RTD's...
     
  7. Pindar

    Pindar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was gratified by the enormous queues at the cinema I went to, it went well out of the Cinema. Last night regardless of what you thought of the episode was a triumph for the show and should result in many more years for the program.
     
  8. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really liked it. If I have a criticism it's that I would have liked something more sinister and less smug. The zygons were very popular villains because they were genuinely creepy. The make-up was great but the delivery was all a bit too much Benny Hill for me.

    Tom's cameo was amazing and prompted a round of applause but should have been a fraction shorter IMO. More of a tease. I would also have liked to see a bit more of McGann.

    Although initially I wanted Eccleston to do the role, and I would have settled for McGann, I can see how using someone else does allow them to stitch the timeline together nicely, keeping McGann in reserve for pre-time war stories (hopefully not limited to audio but we'll see). Since Eccleston is reluctant to return they stand more of a chance of being able to fill in the blanks with a different actor. Having said that, while Hurt is amazing he is also busy and knocking on a bit so it may come to nothing.
     
  9. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Outstanding episode. Moffat has pretty made up for the previous years of failure now. This episode was outstanding.
     
  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's how you do a reset without pressing the button at all. Brilliant.
     
  11. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Rear Admiral

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    With their long lives, probably serial monogamy. And they may consider that a marriage ends if one spouse regenerates; perhaps even that familial relationships are severed. Hence Doctors Two onwards would not be Susan's grandfather, sharing fewer genes with her than Doctor One did.
     
  12. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What reset? The Doctor didn't change time, he just changed his mind. That's my interpretation at least. No reset happened. He just never remembered the actual time line. I find that particularly awesome.
     
  13. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Indeed. As far as Nine and Ten are concerned, they still believe they destroyed Gallifrey and will go on to live with that guilt. But now Eleven and every Doctor that follows knows the truth. That the planets still out there someplace.
     
  14. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    Which means at some point Gallifrey will be recovered, and a grateful world will... grant more regenerations. Problem solved.
     
  15. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I think it is a reset. Ten says the events are timelocked and that they shouldn't even be there. Ten also says that what they're trying to do will change their own history. Like the Doctor did in "Waters of Mars" but refused to do in "Timeflight".

    Also the Badwolf persona of The Moment makes it apparent that this is a future entity reaching back to Warrior Doc about his decision. Since the Bad Wolf didn't exist until 9th(Eccleston) and Rose, and the Bad Wolf is an entire time vortex of a TARDIS. The destruction of Galifrey is something the Bad Wolf is probably trying to change. Look what it took 3 Doctors united in a timelocked event, and then all 13 of them (and their TARDIS's) at the zero hour of Galifrey to change history.

    Warrior Doctor was alone the first time he destroyed Galifrey and the Timelords. If The Moment is able to stand in judgement of whomever uses it. It probably deemed the Timelords worthy of extinction along with the Dalek's.

    So the timeline I worked out is.
    Eight becomes Warrior

    Warrior end the Time War alone using The Moment

    Regens into 9th (Eccleston) for series 1

    9th becomes 10th(Tennant) for series 2 -specials that ended in 2010.

    10th and the Master prevent Rassilon and the Timelords from escaping the timelocked events of the Timewar. This includes preventing the Timelords from carrying out their mad plan to extinguish all life in the universe and become pure energy/conscience.

    10th becomes 11th(Smith) for series 5-7.

    11th and Clara go to Trenzalore where the Doctor meets his death and is brought face to face with a past life he had buried deep within his subconscious.

    The Day of the Doctor happens. With the Bad Wolf Moment persona showing Warrior Doc his own future, and allowing 10 and 11 into the timelocked events of the Timewar. The 3 Doctor's decide to press the button together, having finally reconciled what they did and resolving to discontinue shunning Warrior Doc for his decision. THE IMPOSSIBLE GIRL intervenes and appeals to the 11th Doctor's better nature. A plan to unite all previous and future Doctor's and all their TARDIS's is initiated. Galifrey is saved using the same technology the Zygons use to freeze a moment and time and preserve it like a picture.

    10 and Warrior go back to their own respective timelines. While 11 reflects about finding Galifrey.



    That's my timeline of events. Now this is contingent on one simple thing. Do you believe the Bad Wolf Moment Persona was there the first time Warrior Doc attempted to destroy Galifrey? Everything that happened in TDOTD is dependent of The Moment persona interfering with events. Does she have "secret/future" knowledge and wants to change history? Or was she always there to save the Doctor from his choice? I think it's the former because the episode is about Warrior Doc being redeemed and accepted by himself. He would have to have committed a crime in order for there to be a redemption or an intervention to save his soul.
     
  16. Zulu Romeo

    Zulu Romeo World Famous Starship Captain Admiral

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    It was better than "Dimensions in Time." :)

    No, it was better than even that... it was FANTASTIC. From the banter between Smith, Tennant and Hurt, to the literal Baker's Dozen, I loved it. :hugegrin:
     
  17. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    I think there are now two timelines.

    Timeline A is the one where Gallifrey was destroyed by the Doctor and the one we've seen depicted on the show.

    Timeline B diverges at some point after the Doctor has the Moment and is the one where he doesn't destroy Gallifrey which makes his subsequent incarnations less guilt-ridden and angsty (I assume that he still saw and did enough horrible things in the war to be somewhat guilt-ridden and angsty) and probably influences how their stories play out (though by how much remains anyone's guess).

    We're still seeing Timeline A on the show.

    It's only fair of Moffat to create a new playground for fan fic authors with this other timeline after he made tons of fan fic obsolete with "The Night of the Doctor". ;)
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, this doesn't allow the Master to reappear again -- at least, not in the sense you're suggesting. Gallifrey was frozen at the final moment of the Time War. This does not change any of the events of the Time War itself. It merely reveals that at the final moment, Gallifrey wasn't destroyed but was actually shunted off to a pocket universe. Everything that happened in the Time War is in Gallifrey's past at this point, so none of it was affected. So the Master would already have fled and disguised himself as Professor Yana.


    But since the earlier Doctors' memories of the crossover were erased, the last memory the Doctor has is of himself standing over the Moment with his hand on the button. And then he would've come back to himself and found himself in a universe where Gallifrey and the Daleks were assumed to have mutually destroyed each other. So he would've assumed he'd pressed the button and blacked out from the effects of the Moment.


    I don't interpret the time lock as being anything so physically localized. It was a means of preventing those outside the war from intervening in the events of the War, no matter where in space they were.

    But who says there were any Daleks left on Skaro? There was dialogue here stating that the Daleks were throwing everything they had at Gallifrey, because this was the final battle, with both sides going all-in. All the surviving Daleks were attacking Gallifrey at once.


    Ugh, no. This should be a celebration, not a funeral dirge. Doctor Who is about fun and adventure, not endless war and death and anguish. The problem with genre fans -- and creators -- today is that we've become so obsessed with getting the genre taken seriously that we're no longer willing to just have fun. Even Superman gets a grim, depressing movie where he never really gets to be a hero.


    The First Doctor regenerated spontaneously due to old age. What's wrong with the War Doctor doing the same? He even used the same line, that his body was "wearing a bit thin." After all, William Hartnell was in his fifties when he left the show -- John Hurt is 73. This is the oldest, physiologically, that the Doctor has ever been. So no, it wasn't the timeline correcting itself, because the timeline didn't change, only our perceptions of it did. This is the way it always happened. (Although there's a certain irony to the idea that the warrior incarnation was only the second one to "die" of natural causes.)


    Well, humans and Zygons.

    Not exactly, since, as I mentioned above, John Guilor recorded new dialogue for the First Doctor, dubbed over Hartnell's image ("This is the Doctor calling the War Council of Gallifrey...").


    It's not the result of the change, since there was no change. The same thing happened in previous multi-Doctor crossovers. For decades, fans have been asking, "In 'The Three Doctors' and 'The Five Doctors' and 'The Two Doctors,' how come the older Doctor doesn't remember these events from the earlier Doctor's perspective?" Now we know why: because when the Doctor crosses his own timestream, it throws his timeline out of sync and thus his younger selves can't remember the events after the fact.
     
  19. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    Well, accept the Second Doctor clearly remembered Omega and the Third Doctor in The Five Doctors. Perhaps in some cases the memory loss is gradual?

    And if the Doctor had been working on the calculations to save Gallifrey since his first incarnation, he would have to have remembered it all up to his current self....except he didn't appear to, as it was clearly new to him.
     
  20. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Erm, that's what I'm saying. It superficially looks like a reset but it isn't.