"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JacksonArcher, Jul 10, 2012.

?

How do you rate "The Dark Knight Rises"?

  1. Excellent

    147 vote(s)
    58.3%
  2. Good

    61 vote(s)
    24.2%
  3. Fair

    26 vote(s)
    10.3%
  4. Poor

    12 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. Terrible

    6 vote(s)
    2.4%
  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Location:
    Behind the mask of Donald Draper
    I would be very happy with that. With these quickie reboots its hard for actors in the supporting parts to really make the characters their own in the little time they have. If Judi Dench could continue as M past the Bond reboot why not similar in Superhero films.

    In future Spider-man sequels it would be nice if J.K. Simmons returns as J. Jonah Jameson.

    It has happened before. Noel Neill was the first actress to play Lois Lane in live action for the Superman serials. Later when the first Superman series began it was a full reboot with new cast. But after the first season new Lois Lane actress Phyllis Coates left the show. So the producers brought back Noel Neill to the part and she continued for the rest of the series.
     
  2. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Location:
    Flying Spaghetti Western
  3. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Just saw it last night - it's an interesting if not particularly enjoyable (in that I wouldn't be that interested in seeing it again) film - couple of points:

    1) The Hallucination of Ra's seems to be wearing the same suit as when he first appears in the prison scene in Batman begins

    2) When Bruce visits Gordon in the hospital he is wearing a ski-mask very similarly or the same as the one he wears when they first met in Batman begins.

    3) Hey look it's Christopher Judge (Teal'c) as "Henchman 17"!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  4. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    I eventually settled on this as well. He did have a plan, or at least was going along with one (Ra's), but it got lost along the way as he became more of a sadist.
     
  5. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, California
    I read that the other day and had some ideas to address some of those issues:

    John Daggett:

    [​IMG]

    Daggett is initially a trusted member of the Wayne Enterprises board who runs a WE subsidiary construction company. After the events of Batman Begins damage the lower levels of Wayne Tower, Lucius Fox needs someone on the inside of Wayne Enterprises who can be trusted to discreetly construct a new Applied Sciences Vault in the new Wayne Enterprises Tower across the street, so he gives Daggett's construction company the task.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Fox also needs Daggett to build:

    - A secret elevator from Fox's top floor office to the new Applied Sciences Vault.
    - A new concrete Bat bunker at the Gotham docks with pop-up equipment vaults and a concealed elevator big enough to lift the Tumbler up to the surface.
    - A "panic room" with Batman's equipment in Bruce Wayne's new penthouse apartment and a secret elevator to the sub-basement so he can sneak out.
    - The renovations to Wayne Manor and the new upgrades to the Bat Cave.

    So Daggett knows all of Bruce's and Fox's secrets but is willing to keep them to himself in exchange for more power at Wayne Enterprises and ownership of the construction company outright. Lucius agrees.

    This partnership remains intact until years later when Bruce has retired Batman and is barely a shell of his former self at Wayne Enterprises. He invests most of the company's money in developing a new fusion reactor, which he hides in his old floodable Bat bunker (notice the bunker is nearly identical to the Bat Bunker in TDK and also is accessed from a secret elevator in the docks next to the river. It would be floodable originally to prevent unauthorized access to Batman's weapons, vehicles, and identity). Then suddenly, after learning that the fusion reactor can be converted into a bomb, Bruce shelves the project and leaves Wayne Enterprises in dire straights financially.

    Daggett is furious by this development, so he puts into motion a plan to take over Wayne Enterprises completely and reclaim its former glory. He uses his brother's (yes, I know they just changed the name for the movie) contacts with the Gotham underworld to set up a plan to bankrupt Bruce Wayne and take over the company so he can restart the fusion project. This gets the attention of agents of the League of Shadows who have penetrated Gotham's criminal element again in hopes of continuing their mission to destroy Gotham. This is when Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul and Bane learn who Bruce is, how they can destroy Gotham with the fusion bomb, and get revenge on Ras's killer all in one sweeping plan. Miranda infiltrates Wayne Enterprises as a board member to be one of the people who can authorize activation of the bomb.

    They use Daggett's construction company to dig beneath the Applied Sciences Vault and Gotham Stadium, and to rig the sewers, bridges, and tunnels with explosives in order to turn Gotham into No Man's Land. Daggett only thinks they're digging into the Applied Sciences Vault, but his second in command is working with Bane and keeping their other activities secret. Eventually, after they are no longer needed, Bane kills Daggett and has the second in command sentenced to exile at "judge" Crane's court.

    Remember when Batman saves that little bastard Joffrey from Game of Thrones during the fear toxin rioting in the Narrows during Batman Begins?

    [​IMG]
    (Ned Stark says thanks, Bats)

    I'm making that kid post-Crisis Jason Todd. His parents were living in a slum in the Narrows and constantly fighting. Batman gives the kid a pair of his night vision goggles and later after saving them during the riots Rachel calls Batman "Bruce" right in front of him.

    So, the kid's dad gets sent to prison, and his mom ODs, which means he gets sent to St. Swithen's Home for Boys where the older John (Robin) Blake also lives. When the kids exchange stories about Batman, the blond kid mentions that he has his night vision goggles, that he met Batman, and that his name is Bruce. Later when Blake first meets Bruce Wayne, he uses his deductive skills (along with seeing the haunted look on his face) to determine that this is the Bruce the kid was referring to and that he is Batman. He simply omitted mentioning the rest of it to Bruce and went for the more personal connection between them.

    After TDKR when John/Robin Blake starts to become the new Batman, he could contact Jason Todd and have him become Robin, and perhaps even contact the now adult Barbara Gordon to become Batgirl and eventually Oracle after Joker shoots and paralyzes her after escaping BlackGate Prison during TDKR. Blake will need a team to support him as he initially lacks the training, skills, and resources of Bruce Wayne.

    They will, eventually. Fox just said it will take some time to sort everything out.

    Also, the League of Shadows has used financial means to topple governments before, and has infiltrated the highest levels of governments, so is it not possible that they have people at the SEC who might make things difficult? It would sure explain the too little, too late reaction by the SEC to the short selling and credit default swaps during the credit crunch in 2008 and the subsequent Great Recession. It was the League trying to destroy the world economy. ;)

    I don't get the complaint here, frankly. Bruce was just destroyed financially, outsmarted by Selina, is physically and mentally in pain, and lost the only friend/mentor/father figure he had in Alfred. Is it not understandable that when he's at his lowest point that he would turn to someone who offered companionship, and who --bonus-- happens to look like Marion Cotillard? You don't need the Riddler to figure this one out.

    Plus, did people think Bruce never did anything with all those women he was wining and dining while he was putting on his playboy persona in better days? Sure, he was pining for Rachel too, but I think news would get around town if Gotham's wealthiest bachelor always dropped the women he was dating off at home without sleeping with any of them. He seemed to have some sort of ongoing relationship with the ballerina in TDK. So, it's not like Bruce was a priest or anything.

    He didn't know Gordon would be there when he initially set up the display, but he knew that was where Bane and the criminal element of Gotham was exiling/executing the wealthy and enemies of the movement, so it was a logical spot to get their attention.

    First off, he's the goddamn Batman. That's really all you need to know to explain those things. However...

    Did they miss the entire first third of Begins where young Bruce drops all of his money and possessions on the spot, hops on a ship heading overseas, and travels the world for the better part of a decade without a dime to his name to learn how the homeless, starving, and the criminal element lives? He knows how to get anywhere in the world without any resources, and how to sneak back into the US on a ship.

    In each one of the movies Bruce winds up in Asia either in prison or doing something illegal (in China and India respectively). It's logical to assume he might have some resources staged throughout Asia just in case he needs to make a quick getaway. Hell, the same guys who did the Fulton STARS blimp and hook kidnapping of Lau in Hong Kong were nice enough to lend their white C-130 to Bane to snatch the CIA plane, so clearly they're still in business. Maybe Bruce used his prior relationship with them to bum a ride back to Gotham with the promise of future payment and then parachuted into the city.

    Or, Bruce hitched a ride on one of the many food, water, and medical supplies shipments coming into the city to sneak back inside, just like the special forces team did.

    As far as where the Bat was hiding, I assume it's atop the building where his penthouse apartment is (the one that must have a secret elevator for him to sneak in and out on), so no one would likely mess with it, at least until someone else bought the apartment, but that wasn't happening during No Man's Land.
     
  6. Star Wolf

    Star Wolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Location:
    ciudad de Los Angeles
    It is worse then just Bain. I can understand the lone lizard who wants to force the evolution of the rest of the world. But a suicide cult of a mercenary army willing to stand until they are nuked. Why because people in Gotham City have money, the 1, 10 or 100 percenters, and presumably before they found god they killed people for money
     
  7. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, California
    I think they might have. They definitely did a stunt involving the Bat-Pod shooting out of the alley, because it accidentally blew out a bunch of windows:

    They had a full-scale working Bat-Pod that only one stuntman was able to ride because the handling was just too bizarre to figure out and it was dangerous to ride. It had a 360 degree rotating seat and could raise/contract and lower/extend its frame to glide under the Joker's truck, so it seems like they actually included working parts for all the tricks.

    Here's a gif of the horizontal turn out of the alley for the people who wanted a closer look at how it worked:

    [​IMG]

    Maybe it was mounted on some kind of crane rigging for that stunt, because I don't know how someone could make that turn without falling off or getting crushed.

    Now I'm going to have to watch the extra features on TDK to see if they show any of the stunt riding on the Bat-Pod.
     
  8. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    So the whole front, guns and all do spin. I thought it was just the front and back tires alone that did that. That's what I remember.

    I figured it was CGI.
     
  9. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, California
    From what I gathered the only part that was CGI was when the Bat-Pod ejects from the Tumbler, because they couldn't get it to work as a practical effect mounted on a frame.
     
  10. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    ^ The bat-pod is apparently very hard to maneuver as a real motorcycle, so I can't imagine how they'd pull off some action like that without CGI. At best, it could be a mix of stunt work with some CGI for things like the wheels.
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
  12. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Location:
    Flying Spaghetti Western
    I was thinking about this today so I thought I'd share.

    If Nolan wanted to have an eight-year gap, why not do it during the film rather than before it. At present, having Bruce learn to be Batman twice in the same film seems a bit redundant anyway.

    But if he was in prison for eight years that might give him time to recover from a back breaking while Gotham goes to hell, and Bane could really set up class warfare.

    Plus doin it this way would make Modine's character make sense. Maybe have it so it takes place a few months after the Dark Knight, so when Batman comes on the scene to rescue the stock market people, Modine's reaction to having his men chase Batman would make sense. Him being so obsessed with getting Batman in the film was not very realistic after 8 years.

    My friend think that the whole movie should have have held onto the theme of economic warfare rather than pissing away a few stupid references to it. It's exactly the kind of crime Batman can't fight because he and Wayne Enterprises had helped fuel the fires after all!
     
  13. TV's Frank

    TV's Frank Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    The first sequence of Bruce Wayne training to be Batman again is for the physical aspect whereas the second sequence is for his spiritual side, at least this is how I read the film. He trains himself physically but is unprepared spiritually to reclaim being Batman, hence the 2nd sequence later in the film during his recovery. And I liked that the film addresses these multi-layered aspects of Bruce Wayne/Batman.
     
  14. TV's Frank

    TV's Frank Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I'm currently reading The Dark Knight Manual: Tools, Weapons, Vehicles and Documents From The Batcave. Cool book, written in the first person (Bruce Wayne) and there's a reference to the first five years as Batman.

    This tells me that Batman operates for a few years before that year he spends going after the upper echelons of organized crime, the year the Joker refers to in TDK. That backs up a reference in TDKR about Bruce's "years" as Batman. The idea seems to be that Bruce was Batman for at least five years from BB to the events of the TDK. Also we don't know how long he operated as an outlaw after the events of TDK. In TDKR it merely makes a reference to eight years since the last confirmed sighting.
     
  16. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Location:
    Kansas City
    I guess that makes sense. But it seems odd that The Joker was operate mostly unseen for "a few years" between BB and TDK before becoming a much larger part of Batman's life. It also seems odd that it took that long for Wayne Manor (and the Batcave) to be constructed.

    Again, to me it seems like TDKR just wasn't "thought out" in how it was to fit into the movie series which seemed to be all about establishing a "status quo" for Batman's career and adventures that'd continue after movie series ended. Even Joker references this in "TDK" when he says, "I can see us doing this forever." That's obviously a wink-wink to the audience that that is exactly what is going to happen even if we never get to see it.

    But then TDKR just says, "Fuck it! He stopped being Batman shortly after the events of TDK, the Batcave was a waste of time and resources, and... Batman is crippled."

    It seems like quite a disconnect between each movie and the previous outing(s.)
     
  17. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Ireland
    ^I also find the 5 years gap hard to reconcile with BB and TDK.

    5 years before Batman encountered The Joker, despite Gordon pointing out the calling card to him at the end of BB, and Batman vowing to investigate it? 5 years to repair Wayne Manor? 5 years of Jonathan Crane being at large? 5 years and Batman didn't change his outfit until the start of TDK?
     
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Bruce doesn't appear in truly physical difficulty at the end of TDK yet in TDKR he looks in pretty rough shape. That does argue that something else happened after TDK. For sure it doesn't make any sense that he'd been Batman for only a year before events in TDK.

    If you use the time between BB and TDK (2005-2008) then he could have been operative for three years and then maybe another two mostly out of sight. And so the eight year period mentioned in TDKR is still supported by the last confirmed sighting while he really ceased operations only six years before.

    Seriously, though, that whole eight year absence is rather silly unless the last sighting isn't referring to the events of TDK and Batman remained operative for quite sometime after Dent's death.

    Makes me wonder if anyone even bothered plotting this out at least on a piece of scrap paper to have it make more clear sense.
     
  19. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Ireland
    ^It's been a while since I watched TDK but yes, I'd also agree that I couldn't quite figure out how or when Bruce was supposed to have been so badly injured as to require the cane.
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Considering that Bruce and Alfred do seem to look distinctly older quite a few years might have passed in continuity since TDK.
     

Share This Page