The Dark Knight Megathread (USE THIS! Love, the mods)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Samurai8472, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Yeah I just don't think theres any way someone else could follow Ledger at this point. I think we should just be satisfied that he survived the film, and knowing that theres still the chance he might escape at some future date beyond the scope of the films.

    I'd love to see more of Two face. Trouble is, he'd need some larger motivation to carry on with his crime career.
     
  2. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I highly doubt repeat viewings made up all that much of Titanic's business.
     
  3. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Um I was a preteen during the Titanic reign. I know people that saw it 20+ times. That is not an embellishment or a made up figure. One of my friends in middle school saw Titanic 27 times herself (that's an actual figure) when I finally relented and went to see it. A girl that I sat next to in my first showing said it was her 12th viewing. My cousin (who was a teacher at the time) said that they had girls talking about that film (and DiCaprio) like he was the second coming of Jesus and there were contests to see who had seen the movie the most times.

    Note: I only saw Titanic once in a theatre.
     
  4. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    Consider that "Titanic" was roughly 40 minutes longer than TDK, I would guess it had fewer timeslots in which it could be played. That makes its eventual overall box office take all the more impressive, implying that there really were plenty of repeat viewings.
     
  5. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I'm not saying people didn't see it multiple times -I saw 4 or 5 times- just that I doubt it had that much repeat business to propell it so much into the stratosphere of business. It could very well be that it was a very good movie and people went and saw it for their first time week after week.
     
  6. Smiley

    Smiley Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Obviously, Titanic appealed to more than teenage girls. Otherwise, teen movies or other movies starring DiCaprio would have cleaned up much more at the box office.

    I can see The Dark Knight breaking $400 million, but it will be a challenge to reach $500 million domestically. Personally, I don't think it will happen.
     
  7. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well the fact it was a love story featuring DiCaprio probably helped. And no it wasn't just teenage girls, but certainly the main driving force behind it's success was women.

    Titanic is one of those movies I actually really LIKED (and thought was right up there with Cameron's best work)... until it became a huge, annoying "phenomenon" that you just couldn't escape. That sappy Celine Dion song finally ruined it forever for me.
     
  8. biotech

    biotech Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    I'm just wondering after the lamborghini crash scene, if Gordon didnt figure out Bruce and Batman are one and the same, especially after he already heard Batman say he was going after Racheal when he only had time to save one.

    Hell as good a detective as he is, he probably figured it out long before then.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    Gordon doesn't strike me as the kind of person who follows or even cares about what Bruce Wayne does. He probably doesn't even know Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes were childhood friends, so I don't know how he'd make any connection there.
     
  10. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    I actually liked that Gordon had a scene with Wayne. We don't get that often but it's nice to see the two interact, since Gordon mostly deals with Batman. And after all, in Nolan's 'verse, Gordon met Bruce as a child so it was nice to see Gordon see Bruce again as an adult.
     
  11. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    If I'm not mistaken, in the comic he "knows" but just doesn't let on to Batman that he knows/care.

    It's possible in the movie he "knows" but just doesn't do anything with that knowledge.
     
  12. Kaijufan

    Kaijufan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    I'll agree with that. Gordon is not the type to care much about billionaire playboys (teenage girls maybe, but not an overworked police officer).

    Even after the crash Bruce was doing a great job playing dumb "You think I should go to a hospital?" "You don't watch the news much do you Mr. Wayne?" :lol:

    Of course I'm sure Gordon knows that Batman must be rich (or at least work for/with a rich person), but I'm sure there are at the very least tens of thousands of Gotham citizens rich enough to fund Batman.
     
  13. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    My 2cents on all this...

    I waited the better part of a week before even trying to go to the theater... went on Wednesday night after work. Every show over the weekend was sold-out in advance at my local theater. I've NEVER heard of that before. But how much of that was the "Ledger hype" and how much is going to fade away after it ceases to be seen as an "event" and is seen as "just a movie?" I'd guess that the peak opening-weekend profits are going to drop and while successful, it's not going to see a lot of "repeat viewings" like the really BIG movies do.

    The film was terrific, that said. There area few things that bugged me, but overall, I liked it.

    1) I'm not sold on the new batsuit. Yes, it looks functional, but it no longer has that "monstrous" quality... the fear-inducing element. It's just a really cool SWAT suit now. As for the "head turn" bit, well... if the neck part of the cowl/cape portion of the costume were simply (as shown in the comics) made of the cape fabric rather than of thick "muscle-ish" rubber, the head would turn easily enough anyway.

    I still think that the best-looking "batsuit" is the one in the web-based "Batman: Dead End." (Of course, you need a VERY specific sort of actor to wear that suit.)

    2) I thought it was amusing how they took two things DIRECTLY from the earlier Batman movie series... the "transformer from car to motorcycle" thing and the "joker falling to his death" thing and did a riff on them. I really liked the Joker bit (I groaned when I thought he was going to die that way... but smiled when they turned it around). I didn't like the "motorcycle" bit, however... as an engineer, this just seemed stupid. Remember that the vehicle was built for the military as a bridging vehicle, not built by Optimus Prime. ;)

    3) I think Ledger's performance was great. I still don't think he LOOKED the part, but he ACTED it perfectly.

    That's the real reason I think it CAN be recast, though... Ledger's performance didn't create a new version of the Joker. Rather, it was the first time that the character as he's existed in the comics for pretty much the entirety of his existence was portrayed accurately (ie, as a "force of chaos" rather than a "funny criminal") was seen on-screen.

    What Ledger's performance did wasn't "define" the Joker, but rather it DISCREDITED the bad versions that other actors (including Nicholson, IMHO) have given us in the past. Any future Joker won't be Ledger... but it will be the anarchist force of chaotic evil... the demon in clown makeup... rather than the "funny, entertaining guy who steals stuff and sometimes hurts people."

    It's a high bar... but it's not LEDGER'S bar. Ledger is just the first guy to make it past. The next guy may do even better.

    4. The penthouse/garage idea for the "branch batcave" downtown is straight from the comics. It was well-done. My only real issue was with Wayne sitting in the suit in front of the windows. Having lived in downtown Chicago myself, I know just how "imprivate" that sort of life could be. Odds are, especially since people would know that was Wayne's apartment, you'd have photographers focused on it at all times. And the next day, he'd be on the front page of the National Enquirer.

    5. Wayne Tower wasn't the same building as the first movie... not remotely. Now, maybe this was just some office space purchased to occupy while they restored the outside of the REAL "Wayne Tower" (with the rail system running into it and the waterworks underneath) which was damaged pretty severely at the end of Batman Begins. Still, I'd have liked SOME reference to the first movie's tower, even if just in a background shot, under reconstruction (similar to how they addressed Wayne Manor).

    6) I agree that the recasting of Rachael wasn't a drawback at all. I'm not a fan of Katie Holmes, but I'm not a fan of Maggie either. I don't think either one is particular spectacular looking... both are, really (when not made up) fairly ordinary-looking (that's not an insult... most folks are ordinary-looking after all!) The actresses look and sound just enough alike that I could accept the recasting without any "suspension of disbelief" issues. Of course, I also strongly suspected that what would happen to her was what was going to happen, so it didn't seem like all that big of a deal anyway.

    7) Eckhardt as Dent... other than his hair being a bit too "emo" for my taste, and the loss of his eyelid (which looked cool but wouldn't allow his eye to remain, much less to remain functional!) I liked this. I'm convinced that we WILL see this character again, and probably played by the same actor. The makeup will be a bit different (from "raw fresh wound" to "massive scarring") but should remain REAL rather than like the prior "batman movie" series gave us with Tommy Lee Jones (aggggghhhh....)

    The one thing that I think that they missed, at least a bit, was Dent's psychosis was too emotional. Of course, that's OK because it was a NEW psychosis... eventually, the guy becomes pretty much totally emotionless. Instead of acting on his feelings, the coin makes EVERY choice for him. Good or evil, nice or nasty, generous or greedy... all from the coin. That's the other reason I don't want him "gone" after this movie... there's a lot more development to be had from him. It'd be a waste to lose that now.

    Basically, this was a terrific movie. The only things that bugged me were the "setup for the sequel" ending and the fan attitude about Ledger overshadowing the CHARACTER of the Joker (which, I'm sure, will fade soon enough... the character was there before Ledger - and I don't mean the Nicholson, or Romero for that matter, versions... I mean the COMIC version!), the "too techy" batsuit, and the goofy "transformers" motorcycle conversion.

    A very few quibbles. It is a terrific movie overall.
     
  14. biotech

    biotech Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    4 one way glass.
     
  15. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    Totally agree-- you summed up my problem with the suit perfectly.

    I hadn't thought about that. But I suppose Bruce could have had the Tumbler modified at some point...

    Yeah I kinda know what you mean. I had a hard time buying that his burns and the loss of Rachel, as bad as those things were, would actually send him over the edge and turn him into a raving, bloodthirsty madman; he just seemed to be too decent a guy for that.

    It might have been more believable if the trauma and heartache had simply been so overwhelming that he simply shut down emotionally and decided to let the coin take over. It would have been pretty chilling to see this normally fired up and energetic guy suddenly walking around cold and emotionless.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  16. biotech

    biotech Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

    Well he seemed ok before the Joker came to visit.

    He planted the seed in Harvey that made two face.
     
  17. MNM

    MNM Captain Captain

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    Saw it earlier. Not a bad film, but I dont know, didnt like it as much as the previous one. I thought it was too long, I thought on occasions the batsuit just looked silly and didnt care for how the Rachel character was portrayed or acted. While Ledger was good, I dont think his performance will ever go down as the "iconic joker" style of one. At certain times, especially when he was dressed as a nurse, I kept getting reminded of Mark Hamil's Joker from the cartoons.
     
  18. MPH

    MPH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seen it today! Good film not brilliant and I can't make up my mind if its better than Begins. Ledgers performance was good but overrated, any decent actor probably could have pulled the Joker off.
    And did anyone feel like this didn't really feel like a Batman film?
     
  19. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral

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    Ummm... it didn't feel like a Tim Burton film or a ... oh, hell, I've forgotten the name of the guy who followed Burton... well, anyway... it didn't feel like the last batch of movies.

    But it DID feel like a Batman film, just like "Begins" did. These are the ONLY Batman shows I've ever seen that felt like "Batman" as I've known the character for over four decades.

    So, what is it that a Batman film is "supposed to feel like" in your view?

    For me, Batman is the only "superhero" who really fits into the real world better than into the fantasy world. The more "real" the world is, the better the Batman story is. You can't say the same for any other character, IMHO.

    The opposite viewpoint was taken by the last few movies before Nolan... driving cars around on gargantuan art-deco statues and so forth. Of course, those movies were absolute sewage, IMHO, soooo....
     
  20. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm writing an article on TDK and could use a memory jog. Generally in the movie, torture doesn't work (not against the Joker, or the insane guy Dent threatens to kill). But what about when Batman pushes the mobster and breaks his legs? He gets some solid info from that, right?

    PS. I don't condone torture, just trying to get an accurate representation.